{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/1r6n010s66/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Raymond Karam, March 29, 2023"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2023-03-29 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewer"]},"value":{"en":["Whalen, Emily"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewee"]},"value":{"en":["Karam, Raymond"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eRaymond Karam describes in this interview his career at the EastWest Institute and in Washington, D.C. As an intern at EWI in 2010, he became involved in planning the Institute's board meeting in Abu Dhabi and, given his Arabic language skills, was soon hired to help develop the Institute's growing Middle East programs. His work was mainly on developing a report on nuclear diplomacy and on cultivating contacts for a U.S.-Iran Track II dialogue. After leaving the Institute, he assumed a position at the Arab Gulf States Institute in Washington, D.C. \u003c/p\u003e (abstract)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Contributing Institution"]},"value":{"en":["College of Charleston Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Media Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral History"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Topical"]},"value":{"en":["Diplomacy","Education","Entrepreneurship","Geopolitics","Institution building","Non-governmental organizations","Track two diplomacy"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Geographic"]},"value":{"en":["Abū Ẓaby (United Arab Emirates : Emirate)","Iran","Middle East"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type IMT"]},"value":{"en":["video/mp4"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright © College of Charleston\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date Digital"]},"value":{"en":["2023-04-26"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eRaymond Karam describes in this interview his career at the EastWest Institute and in Washington, D.C. As an intern at EWI in 2010, he became involved in planning the Institute's board meeting in Abu Dhabi and, given his Arabic language skills, was soon hired to help develop the Institute's growing Middle East programs. His work was mainly on developing a report on nuclear diplomacy and on cultivating contacts for a U.S.-Iran Track II dialogue. After leaving the Institute, he assumed a position at the Arab Gulf States Institute in Washington, D.C.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright \u0026copy; College of Charleston\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/184/511/small/Karam_Raymond_Mar2023.mp4_1680830260.jpg?1680830260","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Karam_Raymond_Mar2023.mp4"]},"duration":1627.36,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/184/511/small/Karam_Raymond_Mar2023.mp4_1680830260.jpg?1680830260","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-cofc.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/184/511/original/Karam_Raymond_Mar2023.mp4?1680830258","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":1627.36,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Transcript of Interview with Raymond Karam, March 29, 2023 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nMy name is Emily Whalen. It is March 29th, 2023, and this is an oral history interview for the EWI Oral History Archive Project. Please introduce yourself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=3.0,13.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"RAYMOND KARAM\n\nHi, my name is Raymond Karam. Currently, I'm the Chief Program and Development Officer at the Arab Gulf States Institute in Washington. Previously, I worked at the EastWest Institute for a period of four to five years, almost. First starting in the New York office as an intern, then a program coordinator and associate, and then moved to DC as the head of the Washington office. Basically the head of a single-person office, but yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=13.0,46.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nAnd do you remember when you first heard of the EastWest Institute or the first time you met John Mroz?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=46.0,54.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"RAYMOND KARAM\n\nThe first time I heard about the EastWest Institute was when I was still in graduate school and I was kind of looking for an internship in the think tank field, and I basically pulled up a list of think tanks in New York and went through them from A to Z and clicked on each one of them. And yeah, I was really interested in kind of the story of the EastWest Institute. Although I was focused on Middle East issues, it didn't seem at the time that there was a lot of work on the Middle East happening there. But I was still kind of interested and sent in an application for an internship and was called in for an interview and was working closely with the folks in John's office. And that's kind of how I started my relationship with him and started working with him very closely from day one until the last day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=54.0,115.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nDo you remember what year you started at the institute?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=115.0,120.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"RAYMOND KARAM\n\n2010. Let me confirm exactly for you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=120.0,125.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nThat's all right. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=125.0,127.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"RAYMOND KARAM\n\nDon't want to give you wrong information.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=127.0,129.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nIt's okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=129.0,159.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"RAYMOND KARAM\n\nYeah, I started in 2010 exactly, and I was there until... Started about August, 2010, and then was there until 2015.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=159.0,172.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nGreat. And what made you want to work at the EastWest Institute? How did it strike you as different from other places?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=172.0,184.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"RAYMOND KARAM\n\nI don't think I knew really what made it different until I started working there. I felt like there was a lot of energy. People were very excited. It was kind of, sure you had your experts and your mid-level managers and so on, but there was a lot of young people working there. So there was a lot of energy and a feeling of camaraderie that developed right away with that younger group. And then kind of John's energy was captivating, when he talked to you, he made you feel like you are the most important person and you were about to change the world together. And as a young professional back then, I was think swept up in that and really was on board. They changed the world with him, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=184.0,237.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nAnd what kind of projects did you work on as an intern?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=237.0,240.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"RAYMOND KARAM\n\nYeah, so initially as an intern, it was quite interesting. So there was a board meeting that was going to happen in Abu Dhabi and John wanted to put a conference together there kind of talking about a vision for the Middle East and jobs and economic development and so on. And I was the only at that point Arabic speaker at the institute or someone from the region working at the institute with any experience in the Middle East. I was kind of drafted to put that together on the sidelines of the board meeting with board members speaking and experts from the region and from the UAE participating.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=240.0,295.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And usually interns don't travel to conferences or to board meetings. But since I had basically put together the conference and I was in touch with everyone, I was asked to come along. Yeah, so that was quite an interesting experience for a young professional to just have that responsibility of putting together a conference. But that also gives you an idea of how things were of putting together what was thought of as the most important conference that year, and the responsibility given to an intern who was the only Arabic speaker or a person with any Middle East knowledge at that point.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=295.0,334.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So yeah, I think the experience was very enriching for me and despite all the challenges, made me want to be a part of the organization. So shortly afterwards when my internship was coming to an end, I was asked to stay as a member of staff on a new project where money had materialized from one of the board members, the start at an Iran project basically, which turned into a Track II on US Iran relations in addition to another separately funded project on a Middle East nuclear weapon free zone that was funded by the Kazakh mission to the UN. And it was focused on basically bringing UN member states together in this forum to talk about a nuclear non-proliferation and the open free zone Middle East.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=334.0,400.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nI want to ask a little more about specifics of those projects, but before I do, can you tell me a little more about the conference in Abu Dhabi? What was it like? Do you remember some people that you met? What were the topics under discussion beyond making a new plan for the Middle East or perhaps in —","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=400.0,421.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"RAYMOND KARAM\n\nYeah. I think it was divided maybe in two sections, if I remember correctly. One was kind of talking about more security cooperation and the other one about economic cooperation and economic development. Sheikh Al Nahyan who was at that point I think Minister of Education, I think now he has some maybe Minister of Tolerance I think or something, that's his title at the moment, came and gave a keynote, and we had some experts coming in from Carnegie and other places. At that point in the UAE, a lot of the American think tanks and other think tanks had opened offices in the UAE, Iran among them and others before the Arab Spring protest started and then they were asked to leave mostly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=421.0,487.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So we had some experts to pull in from those organizations in addition to a bunch of board members who spoke at the conference. There wasn't a big audience, I think, because we were kind of dropping in, we had no presence before and we had no kind of partner on the ground that we were working with. But when Sheik Nahyan spoke all... we held it, I think at a university campus, but I can't remember which university. So a lot of the students showed up when he spoke and then promptly left right after he left. But we had maybe 40 people or so which is a decent number.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=487.0,526.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah. Well, and you mentioned that when you came on the institute wasn't doing as much in the Middle East. Was it your sense that that was a growth area for the institute?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=526.0,534.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"RAYMOND KARAM\n\nYeah, absolutely. That's what I heard, and that's kind of in the interview to be brought on, I was told that this is, we have that board meeting and we want to do this and this and this, and then hopefully develop a program after that. So my sense was that there would be some interesting things to work on, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=534.0,555.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nAnd so then when you came on as a program coordinator for these two projects, the Iran project and the Middle East nuclear free zone, was your time evenly divided between those two projects, or was there one that took up more of your time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=555.0,569.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"RAYMOND KARAM\n\nYeah, definitely. The UN project was taking a lot more time because it was structured. We had stakeholders and so on. And then the other one was more kind of in the exploratory phase, I guess, initially. And it took us at least a year to get it off the ground and to get some traction because again, the organization was new to this space, and it took time to build trust and get people to buy into the project.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=569.0,607.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah. Can you tell me a little more about what sort of day-to-day you would be doing on these kinds of projects?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=607.0,615.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"RAYMOND KARAM\n\nYeah. So the UN project was very focused on meetings. So we'd be prepping, I think every quarter for a couple of years. We had a meeting. We'd draft in an expert that would usually come from Washington or overseas, and to speak to this group, the group would come together, either hosted at the institute or at one of the missions over lunch or so on, and then have a discussion. My role would be to organize the meetings, bring in the expert, take notes during the session, put a brief together afterwards.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=615.0,660.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then at the end of the project, I put a report together, and I think the report is still available on the website, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, so that was basically day-to-day, a lot of interactions with the funder, the advisor at the Kazakh mission, who was kind of responsible on the funder's end, and then the representatives from each of the mission that were participating in the meetings.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=660.0,691.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah. And this question might be more relevant to your Iran project, but tell me a little bit about what was going on in the world at the time and how it affected your work and the work of the institute.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=691.0,702.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"RAYMOND KARAM\n\nYeah, Especially on the Iran front, it was during the Ahmadinejad years, so there were no relationships at the time between the US and Iran at all, kind of what happened afterwards during the Obama administration and the back channel talks, there was nothing of the sort going on that I know about, at least at that time. So it felt like we were starting from scratch, and we had this letter that was shared with me that was sent by the Iranian ambassador to the UN at that point to John saying that we welcome speaking more about this project or something like this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=702.0,759.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So basically, we took that and ran with it and went to one of the board members, Iranian-American board member, who I believe gave maybe $50,000 a year or something like this towards this project. And the institute was able to supplement that from other sources and basically started this project. Yeah, so it took a lot of work and of going with John to meet with the Iranian ambassador to the UN, establishing contacts with my counterpart there, kind of starting conversations.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=759.0,800.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then to a certain extent, the organization became a conduit for Iranian officials meeting with American experts on Iran in Washington, including former officials and others. So we organized, I would say at least half a dozen meetings over a couple of years in New York with, one, the Iranian ambassador to the UN, second, visiting foreign minister when he would come to UNGA [UN General Assembly] and then other officials be it, I think at some point, the speaker of Parliament or the head of the judiciary who were coming through.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=800.0,854.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So we organized these series of meetings, and at that point, to the extent of my knowledge, there was nothing else happening. And so that was our role and facilitated those talks. I know the Rockefeller Brothers Fund also supported this effort. Stephen Heintz specifically was interested. He had his own relationships with Iranian leaders and was interested in having these talks continue. And then once the Obama administration came in, I think there was a change of leadership in Iran as well. A different team came in more kind of on the reformist side, and they had their best relationships with people in DC and others. So they picked those up, I think, and at that point there was no space, I don't think, for the EWI effort anymore when that happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=854.0,911.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nMakes sense. Yeah. It's still must have been really fascinating. I can imagine, you did a lot in that process.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=911.0,918.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"RAYMOND KARAM\n\nYeah, it was really interesting. Felt like you're doing something that nobody else was doing, and facilitating dialogue, bringing people more towards a better understanding of their perspectives and points of views, and just felt like cool to be doing it at the same time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=918.0,941.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nI bet. Yeah. So take me from program coordinator to leading the office in DC. What was that transition?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=941.0,953.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"RAYMOND KARAM\n\nYeah. It was interesting. I think it was also at kind of at the tail end of the UN project had come to a conclusion. We did a big conference at the UN to launch their report, and Secretary of Ban Ki-Moon at that time came and spoke at the conference and was a big deal. But that concluded the report, and there was no more funding to continue that line of work. Also, the transition had happened regarding the Iran work, and there wasn't as much meat for us anymore.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=953.0,989.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So there was a very small office in DC with somebody who's working there who decided to move on. And so that job opened, and I was interested in making a step-up and the change of scenery as well. I had never worked in DC itself before, so I kind of put myself forward. And John was happy with that because we had worked very closely together over the years, and he would come to DC quite often, about four or five times a year and do the rounds to the ambassadors and government offices, state department and other places. So we had a good working relationship, and he was happy to have me do that. So yeah, I moved down and was in that role for a couple of years before I decided to move on after he passed away.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=989.0,1044.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nMakes sense. Yeah. And what was your sense before John passed away... As you know, EWI is kind of a chameleon, it's changed its it's profile a number of times. How would you describe the EastWest Institute in the years that you were involved?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=1044.0,1060.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"RAYMOND KARAM\n\nYeah, I think it was kind of struggling to find its role and its lane really. There was a lot of money and effort put into the cyber security work as you know. It was kind of going in all different directions, trying to find a place for it. There was the work with the Russians, there was the work in the USA expert community. Some work with China, really big conferences that were going from country to country every year.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=1060.0,1101.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, so a lot of effort was put there, but at the same time, I think there was still an effort to hit all the other hotspots. So there was the China dialogue that was separate, and there was the Middle East work that was going forward slowly. And then at some point we also put a lot of effort into looking at... we weren't calling it climate change, but it was the food, water energy nexus. I think that's the term that John settled on, and even hired somebody at some point to lead that work, but that didn't go anywhere.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=1101.0,1149.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There was some work in Afghanistan too, in the Amu Darya River Basin Network that was established, and that was work that was happening, I think, out of the Brussels office. Anyway, but I still continued working on the Middle East front, but at that point, with the rise of ISIS, there was kind of focus on preventing extremism as well. But then we were able to put together this really nice proposal that looked at CVE back then, I guess, and economic development and other things, and proposed it to a couple of our board members who were interested in the Middle East, and they funded it as well as some European funding that came through.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=1149.0,1207.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So yeah, at the end of my time in Washington, I was offered this position as the head of this Middle East program, but I had to relocate to Brussels to do that work, and I wasn't interested in relocating to Brussels, so I kind of passed on and decided to move on to a different place. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=1207.0,1228.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah. Thinking big picture now, you touched on this, but maybe we can get a little more specific, what do you think was the biggest challenge that you faced or that the institute faced in this period?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=1228.0,1243.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"RAYMOND KARAM\n\nYeah, I think it was lack of focus.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=1243.0,1245.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=1245.0,1246.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"RAYMOND KARAM\n\nYeah. I think it was kind of running in all directions, trying to grab slices of the various pies, and kind of a struggle to remain relevant. Probably you learned this in your research that the institute was very successful towards the end of the Cold War period and made a lot of things happen. But then I think definitely struggled after that for an identity, for something kind of a mission to keep going forward. Yeah, and maybe in a 20-year period of looking, maybe the last 15-year period of looking for the next thing for direction. And yeah, I think there was definitely a lack of focus that may have hurt it at the end. Yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=1246.0,1303.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nAnd also in this big picture, what are you proudest of your time of the work that you did at with the institute?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=1303.0,1309.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"RAYMOND KARAM\n\nYeah, a few things, for sure. Yeah, I think the Iran Track II work was at the time, I was really proud of it just because we were able to make it happen. I was also proud of expanding the Washington office once I moved there, establishing relations with different embassies and entities and doing things on the hill that we hadn't done in the past. And then at the end, putting together the Middle East related work proposal and getting it funded as a final act, which was pretty cool at the time, and gave a lot of satisfaction.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=1309.0,1359.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nHow would you say you working at the institute affected your later career? You've gone on to do a number of interesting things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=1359.0,1368.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"RAYMOND KARAM\n\nIn DC, not a lot of people know of the EastWest Institute unless they had encountered John or were involved in something. So I think most of what I got was learning from John personally. I got a chance to travel with him quite a bit and just go to a lot of meetings with him. So thinking quickly on the spot, I think being well-prepared when going to a meeting and heading, what are my three points? And looking from that other person's perspective, why are they willing to meet with me and what do they want to get from me? What is it that I can give them to make them feel that this meeting was useful, for example.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=1368.0,1415.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, a lot of learning he had in his own way, his own art of diplomacy. And I think knowing when to deploy that is really important, but learning that as a skill was really good for me. And also, he was amazing in a way that he included his staff and meetings, and he took me along for everything and would present me as his right-hand person on this topic. And it helped me establish relationships at much higher levels than my level was at that point. But it also gave me a lot of confidence in myself and the work that I do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=1415.0,1457.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He had a couple of secret meetings. I don't know if they actually were happening, our bad, but he liked to keep them secret and not take anyone with him. But he made a great effort to include me in almost everything. So going to see Henry Kissinger and being the only person with him in the room, or different ambassadors here in Washington, being the only person with him in the room, I think was really a huge learning experience for me. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=1457.0,1485.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nAbsolutely. Yeah. Speaking of learning experiences, we're also seeing this archive as a resource for current students of international relations. And I wonder, given your experience, if you had any sort of advice for students, perhaps at the undergraduate level who are looking at making a career in international relations in this current day and age. And I wonder if you have any advice for them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=1485.0,1511.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"RAYMOND KARAM\n\nYeah, what helped me was that I was maybe different than anyone else that was working at that place and gave me a leg up. So my advice is always think about what would make you different than anyone else in your class. Do you speak a foreign language that no one else speaks? Do you speak a foreign language at all? And that's something that in this field, I think is important. Not only to make you different, but to help you understand kind of a region that you're studying or speak to people who are subjects of your research or part of this world that you're involved in.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=1511.0,1558.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, I always say that learn how to write properly, and it's a skill that even to this day, I see it, people at my level are higher who don't know how to write for policy purposes. So that's a really important skill, and that's something that's easily offered that the university level that most students don't take advantage of. So that would be kind of my other thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=1558.0,1587.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then I think picking mentors also is really important. So having someone who pushes you, who's kind of watching out for you, giving you advice, introducing you to people and so on, is really important. So yeah, I think before I met John, I didn't have a mentor to help me with that, but he became sort of one, and I'm grateful for that. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=1587.0,1616.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511/transcript/42215/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah. Well, I think that's a wonderful place to conclude. I want to thank you so much for your time and for your recollections. This has been a really great conversation. I'm going to pause the recording.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88959/file/184511#t=1616.0,1627.36"}]}]}]}