{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/6h4cn70v5b/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Oral history interview with Thomas Dixon"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["12/20/21"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Pastor Thomas Dixon is a Naval Veteran and pastor with the Life Community Church in Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina. He uses his ministerial outreach to mentor the disenfranchised and participate in local activism. Born and raised in Chicago before moving to South Carolina, he draws from his own experiences with the carceral system and substance use to support his community."]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright Avery Research Center for African American History and Culture"]}},{"label":{"en":["Access Note"]},"value":{"en":["For more information contact the Avery Research Center for African American History and Culture, 125 Bull Street, Charleston, SC 29424."]}},{"label":{"en":["Access Statement"]},"value":{"en":["All rights reserved."]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewee"]},"value":{"en":["Dixon, Thomas, 1955-"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewer"]},"value":{"en":["Brown, Millicent E., 1948-"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Topical"]},"value":{"en":["Black lives matter movement","Church","African Americans","Activism","Political participation","Community organization"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Personal or Corporate"]},"value":{"en":["dÕBaha, Muhiyidin, 1985-2018","Moye, Muhiyidin, 1985-2018","Emanuel AME Church (Charleston, S.C.)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Geographic"]},"value":{"en":["Charleston (S.C.)","North Charleston (S.C.)","Mount Pleasant (S.C.)","Chicago (I.L.)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Geographic County"]},"value":{"en":["Charleston County (S.C.)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Contributing Institution"]},"value":{"en":["Avery Research Center for African American History and Culture"]}},{"label":{"en":["Media Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral Histories"]}},{"label":{"en":["Resource Locator"]},"value":{"en":["AMN 1168.001.031"]}},{"label":{"en":["Digitization Specifications"]},"value":{"en":["Mp4 derivative audio and video created using Davinci Resolve. Archival masters are mp4 files."]}},{"label":{"en":["Date Digital"]},"value":{"en":["2022"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Pastor Thomas Dixon is a Naval Veteran and pastor with the Life Community Church in Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina. He uses his ministerial outreach to mentor the disenfranchised and participate in local activism. Born and raised in Chicago before moving to South Carolina, he draws from his own experiences with the carceral system and substance use to support his community."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright Avery Research Center for African American History and Culture"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/291/382/small/pastor-dixon.mp4_1757958755.jpg?1757958757","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - pastor-dixon.mp4"]},"duration":3548.287,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/291/382/small/pastor-dixon.mp4_1757958755.jpg?1757958757","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-cofc.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/291/382/original/pastor-dixon.mp4?1757958750","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":3548.287,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["thomas-dixon.docx [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=0.0,1.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nWe're going to ask you to just give us your full name and then spell first and last name for us.  \n\n ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=1.0,7.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"THOMAS DIXON\n\nMy name is Thomas Dixon. First name Thomas, T-H-O-M-A-S. Last name Dixon, D-I-X-O-N. \n\n ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=7.0,14.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nOkay. And what do you call home? Where you from, Pastor Dixon? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=14.0,22.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"THOMAS DIXON\n\nI was born and raised in the projects of Chicago. I'm what you call, when I go back now, an OG. I was there 30 years before I left from Chicago by joining the Navy. That ultimately brought me here to Charleston, South Carolina. My upbringing in the projects, right around the age of 15 years old, I started dabbling in alcohol and drugs, and it led me on a 30 year binge [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=22.0,48.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] about, yeah, 30 years. A 30 year binge of alcohol and drug addiction that ultimately I didn't break free from until the year 2000. \n\nWhen I joined the military, when I joined the Navy, it was actually to get away from that environment. I thought that I could actually kick my addictions. I'd just had a son two years prior to that, and I realized that if I stayed where I was at, I would either be dead or in jail, but then 10 years and I wouldn't be able to offer him anything. So I thought that I would be able to join the military and get away from this environment and change that and stop doing what I hated to do, because I hated the life I was living. It was a flawed plan, because the demons went right along with me during my military time. \n\nSo I was in six years, and ultimately released from the military because of multiple drug infractions while I was in during that six years. But fortunately, because of a technicality, I came out with an honorable discharge. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=48.0,117.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nIn what year? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=117.0,118.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"THOMAS DIXON\n\nThis was 1989, when I was released from service. I went in in '83. And that's how I got here. I was stationed here in '85, and my plan was to go further south, coming from the streets of Chicago and the cold of Chicago. Again, I got here in '85, and here it is 2022 and I'm still here. So that plan didn't work either. The plan about ending the drug addictions and everything, it didn't work, and that plan to move further south didn't work either. \n\nBut it was all part of a bigger plan that got me to the point of who I am right now, the work that I do right now, the cumulative experiences I've had over the years from growing up in the projects, raised in a Catholic household, going to a Catholic seminary in high school, working in various jobs, 30 years of alcohol and drug addiction, traveling with the military. All of these different things helped me to be the person that I am right now. My addictions, they led me to understand that I cannot be judgmental about others. That I need to treat others the way that I want to be treated, because I was them. Working minimum wage jobs, being released from jobs with no cause, at one point almost homeless. \n\nSo all of these different things combined together. My prison time, went to prison here in South Carolina. That's where the change came in my life. All of these things contributed to me being the person that I am, with a distinct understanding of what those that are going through those issues are going through. And that a lot of times, society actually places an image on those who are going through these issues that's not realistic based on who these people are. Like the concept that, well, if you're a drug addict, you're that because you want to be that. I know for nearly 30 years of my life, I hated the life that I lived, I just didn't know how to stop it. So now it's my mission to make sure people understand the misconceptions that they've had in treating people and dealing with people, and to try to correct those in order to embrace people in their weaknesses and in their flaws to help them forward. \n\nWe've been too judgmental as a nation for far too long, and because of that, all we've gone is backward. Now, if we embrace the shortcomings of everybody— because everyone has shortcomings. One person's shortcoming isn't greater than the next person's shortcoming. It's a shortcoming. And when we embrace them and try to understand them, then we can work to move forward. So these are the things that shape me into the person that I am right now today. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=118.0,298.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nIf you were to identify yourself occupation-wise as a title, what on the record would we have for you now? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=298.0,313.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"THOMAS DIXON\n\nI go by the title of pastor. And only recently have I been involved with actually a formal church. I'm an associate pastor at Life Community Church, it's a micro-church out of Mount Pleasant, a church that I got affiliated with through my advocacy in gun violence prevention. \n\nThere was a shooting in North Charleston three years ago, two high school students with a gun came across a father and his son that were rehabbing homes free of charge for veterans in North Charleston. They thought they had some money, they came in, started shooting. Killed the son, and his father was hit five times, but survived. I knew that the city, neither city nor county was going to reach out to that family. When I found out that they had a vigil for the son, I went, and I introduced myself to the family and I've been with them ever since. The father is the pastor of Life Community Church, founder and pastor of Life Community Church. The son was their music minister. \n\nAnd I knew that with that church family, it's a small church family, that they were going to need somebody, a support system aside from themselves. And since I've been working in the area of gun violence prevention for a long time, I just started interacting with them. And that was three and a half years ago. Now the father, when he came home, we met, and I've been fellowshipping with them and their church now ever since. And last year, early last year, they were like, \"Well, you might as well just fill in as associate pastor here.\" I was like, \"Well, I'm not really into that, but okay, whatever we need to continue the support system.\" \n\nAside from that, I started a church right in Summerville in 2003, right after I came out of the prison system. That lasted almost 10 years, until one point right around 2011, 2012, where the advocacy that I was doing, it was just impressed upon me that I didn't need to spend time inside of those four walls, and that the ministry that I had because of my history was outside of those four walls. I needed to be in the community more. So I walked away as founder and pastor of Summerville Christian Fellowship, which did not continue after that point, and my ministry shifted to in the streets. Not carrying a Bible around or beating people up with scripture or running folks away trying to save them, but showing people my faith, the love for others that it's my understanding that that's what the faith is about, showing people love. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=313.0,487.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nAnd I know this is a very personal thing, but where's the motivation for that shift? What do you account for as having taken you from inside the four walls to outside? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=487.0,502.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"THOMAS DIXON\n\nI think it's the same motivation that took me from what led me to prison to lead me to where I'm at today. It's the same motivation. It's the fact that there's a world out here that's hurting. There are people who need other people, and everyone is equipped with various gifts and talents that are to be used for the betterment of the community. And I realized while I was in prison, once my head cleared up and everything after the 30 years of alcohol and drugs that I had a bigger role to play in life than what I had let myself go through all of those years, the first 45 years of my life. And once I realized that and I realized the detrimental aspects of what I had done to my community, to our community, it broke my heart for what I had done in my personal life and to our community. And I said, \"As long as I live, I will try my best to correct that.\" \n\nSo realizing that there was a bigger need and a bigger job for me to do, when I came out of the prison system in 2001, I started on the road that's led me to where I'm at now as a social justice advocate, which would be another title that I carry, social justice advocate. Some say activist, I like advocate a lot better. You know, because sometimes activists don't activate, but the message still goes forward. \n\nIt's that same necessity of serving the community that drove me to go from ministering within a small church and the people who were affiliated there, and that limited scope that I could reach through that. To go into the same communities that I was accustomed to, raised in. Not necessarily physically raised, because I wasn't born and raised in North Charleston or Charleston. But to me, the hood is the hood. Born and raised in the hood in Chicago, and when I got to North Charleston, even though in North Charleston, say, \"You're not from here, you don't know,\" and they don't know. The hood is the hood, and the systems that are in place are the same systems no matter where, and they're the same systems that have to be overcome. \n\nSo when I walked away from the ministry that I started, because I was doing social justice work, I was focusing at that time on trying to reduce recidivism, working with quite a few different groups trying for prison reform and trying to reduce recidivism. But I was also interested, because of coming up in the projects in Chicago and the amount of gun violence I've seen, and guns and gangs and my drug activity personally that I've seen coast to coast, I was definitely interested in the rise of gun violence in North Charleston. So I started working in the streets, dealing with that. \n\nAnd along the way, while going through Dr. King's Letter from a Birmingham Jail, it just impressed upon my spirit when he wrote the statement that, “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere,” and that what affects one area directly affects all indirectly. And I reason to myself, \"Here I am. I'm trying to work hard to reduce recidivism and push prison reform, and I'm trying hard to really end this gun violence or at least the gun violence on the street. But if the educational system is broken, that's contributing to the gang violence out here, and the incarceration rate. If the economics of fair wages are not available, if there's no way to get healthy foods or the environment is suffering, unless all of these systems are working correctly, then we got a problem. That's that what affects one directly affects all indirectly. \n\nSo for me, I began to work in all systems, all of the social justice systems. It put me in a position where if anyone is hurting, regardless of what the issue is, be it homelessness, domestic violence, women's rights, LGBTQ rights, no matter what it is, that means that I need to -- for my gifting particularly, everybody doesn't have this gifting, for my gifting -- I need to be there in order to try to advocate on behalf of them to move the needle forward. \n\nThat's one of the reasons why in 2016, I ran for US Senate against Tim Scott, because of the fact that those same issues had been on the table for so long, nobody was addressing them. And to be honest with you, I didn't think I could beat him, but I knew that would give me a strong platform to push all of those issues across this state, 46 counties, 32,000 square miles, 5 million people, and me, and all of those issues. And, those were my platform. And, I chose my platform – actually chose my platform before the presidential race that brought Bernie Sanders with the same platform. But I was speaking from experience, and being out in the streets, advocating for all those different areas. \n\nSo that's kind of the same draw that brought me out of the four walls of the church. You know, when it comes to the church, we can save each other all day long. But if we're not reaching the people who really need to be saved, then we're not doing what we need to do. And so even as now in the streets, I'm called Pastor Dixon by all levels of people that I interact with, street folks, the OGs, drug addicts, no matter who, it's Pastor Dixon. And it's not a religious type of Pastor Dixon, it's because they understand I'm a shepherd, and that's all that word means, pastor. It means shepherd, somebody who shepherds the flocks, cares for the flock. And that's why I continue to carry the title Pastor. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=502.0,895.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nWould you tell us a little bit about what the tangible work is that you got involved with, and the people that you were working with? Because you've said you're seeing it in this multi-prong, multi-system way. That means you're in a lot of different places with a lot of different-thinking people. Can you tell us about some of the folks that you're interacting with? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=895.0,925.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"THOMAS DIXON\n\nOh, absolutely. Absolutely. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=925.0,926.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nEspecially, if you will, by the time we get to 2011, 2012, 2013, that kind of thing. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=926.0,927.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"THOMAS DIXON\n\nYeah, exactly. You know, coming out of the prison system in 2001, I actually exited on work release. I was working on Shem Creek as a prep cook, and I stayed in that job for 11 years. And one day I walked on the job after outstanding evals and everything. I hadn't received a raise in like four years. I started at $8.50 and I ended $12.50 or something like that an hour. And I walked in one day and they said, \"Thank you, go home, we don't need you anymore,\" and terminated me. And I was like, \"Wow, can you do that?\" They said, \"Yeah. And we're not even going to give you your unemployment.\" Yeah. I'm like, \"Wow.\" So I went and I sought legal advice, and that's when I found out, in South Carolina, this is an at will state that an employer doesn't need a reason to terminate you. \n\nBut that understanding and understanding right to work laws, as I began to look into all of this, led me into contact with different organizations. One locally, Carolina Alliance for Fair Employment, which had been a longstanding fixture in South Carolina statewide, but at that time they had fallen off the statewide platform and the most activism was being done right here in the Charleston area. Them along with South Carolina Progressive Network, both in Columbia and here in Charleston. So I started working along with them. Ultimately with CAFE, we eventually changed into the Charleston Alliance for Fair Employment. But that gave me that inroad into workers' rights, labor rights. I started working for Fight for 15, started being involved with local organizing, things such as organizing at Boeing, union workers, Healthcare Workers United at MUSC, trying to push for unions there. \n\nMy first organization after exiting from the prison system, and while I was still on work release, was with the South Carolina Reentry Commission. It was a think tank for trying to reduce recidivism. And that's where I met... First off, I was really surprised that they allowed me in. Here's this guy, I didn't have any credentials, I'm a prep cook at Vickery’s Restaurant, with a durag on him. And I'm walking in this room and it's the ninth circuit public defender lead there, Ashley -- that's where I met Ashley Pennington, Dr. Heath Hoffmann, and all of these different people that I'm friends with to this day. But that's where the work of being involved, trying to reduce recidivism started at. \n\nUltimately, I wound up chairing that group not long before they disbanded, which was about 2011, 2012. With Charleston Alliance for Fair Employment, four of the last seven years, I chaired that organization. With gun violence prevention, I'm currently on the national board of trustees for Brady United, which was formerly the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, and I've been on that board now for the last three and a half years. Never expected to be there. \n\nI didn't really know that much about Brady until 2015, in the aftermath of Mother Emanuel, when one of their field representatives came to Charleston a couple of days after the shooting, and a friend of mine happened to be working on King Street and the rep needed a mattress. So he went into that store. They had a conversation. He said, you know, \"I'm with Brady, we're a gun violence prevention organization. Can you connect me with anybody here that works in that area?\" And they called me. And that's how we got connected. \n\nBrady started on the ground here as far as doing some organizing. At that point, we took a busload of gun violence survivors to DC to advocate before Congress. That was one of the first trips that I made, but ultimately, the advocacy that I had been doing here in the community, dealing with everyday shootings -- not the sensationalized shootings of that year, the Walter Scott, the Mother Emanuel -- that's not really why they brought me in, and why I brought the others in that led us to DC. It was more about those who experienced gun violence on a daily basis. Which I was definitely attracted to, because the sensationalized gun violence for a long time has overwhelmed everyday shootings that happen in urban America. And I was trying to find a way in order to shift that. \n\nSo by God's grace, he opened up a door in the aftermath of Mother Emanuel, and somebody come in here who said, \"We really don't want to bring in the survivors of Mother Emanuel. We don't want the Walter Scott family. What we really want to come and talk is those everyday common ordinary people who have suffered the loss of a loved one to gun violence.\" And so I think we took about 15 people to DC with us to speak to the... There was a big CNN press conference with Nancy Pelosi and all of those folks and Jim Clyburn and all of that, but it was really, really a good time to put the information on the table. Of course, the needle has not moved in Congress when it comes to gun violence prevention legislation, but we continue to put the information on the table and press the needle. Eventually it's going to move. Eventually it's going to move. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=927.0,1323.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nWhat about locally? Has the needle moved any in terms of energizing people to the importance of the issue? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=1323.0,1337.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"THOMAS DIXON\n\nWhen it comes to gun violence prevention, the needle is moving the wrong way, because there's very little leadership in this area. Now I don’t say what I feel. There's very little leadership of those that are empowered on the issues. Everybody from our politicians, to our pastors, to the police, they would just as soon complain or talk about things as opposed to dealing substantively in how to stop the bloodshed. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=1337.0,1374.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nWhat are some of those prescriptions for stopping? I mean, in an ideal world, if you had the ear of the politicians, the pastors, the police, you know, the three Ps, what are the kinds of things that you personally advocate, as well as any organizations that you're with? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=1374.0,1398.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"THOMAS DIXON Yeah, let me start off with the politicians. Common sense gun legislation that will take guns out of the hands of those who should not have them. Now let me get it straight, because there will be those who misconstrue what I say. And I'm not against the Second Amendment at all. I'm in favor of the Second Amendment, and people who go through the right channels in order to own a firearm. Get the background check done. Wait on the background check to come back. Don't just sell it. So that means we have to close what's called the Charleston loophole. Can't just sell a gun, you know? And so- ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=1398.0,1437.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nAs evidenced through the Dylan Roof case. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=1437.0,1440.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"THOMAS DIXON\n\nAbsolutely. Absolutely, because that's the way he got that gun, was through the Charleston loophole. He should not have been able to get his hand on that gun, but that dealer was able to sell it to him legally, because the information from his background check hadn't been returned back. \n\nLegislation that will save lives by making sure that only those who have firearms are those who should have firearms, or at least limiting the possibilities of those who shouldn't have them. This is a good thing if we can save one life. And improving the background check system, closing the loopholes, because there are loopholes. Ensuring that training is available in the use of firearms, and especially in the storage of firearms. We have many people whose lives are lost, children whose lives are lost, because of irresponsible gun ownership. But there's no penalty for it. \n\nYou ask law enforcement about why the gun crimes are so high on the street, the first thing they say was car break-ins. Well, one thing I don't understand, if you put your gun in the car and you get out the car and leave it in the car, what good is it going to do you, if you run into a—  if you got it for protection, it's in the car. \"Hold on, just wait a minute while I go to the car and get my gun.\" You know? No, that's not how it works. But they leave their guns in their cars. Many times the car is unlocked, and they just go in and get this gun, take that gun and go use it in the commission of a crime, sometimes a homicide. And it can be traced back, because they're not filing serial numbers off [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=1440.0,1547.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"]. Police told me that too, and a politician told me that. I said, \"Man, get out the fantasy world. They not filing anything down, because there's no need to.\" \n\nBut they're using these guns in these crimes, and they can trace these guns back to the owners. Owners who have not filed a report saying their firearm was stolen, there should be a criminal charge filed against these owners for negligence, and some type of penalty that'll make the owners understand that, you know, \"I do need to be more conscientious about how I store and keep my firearm.\" Same thing for storage in homes. There needs to be penalties. And I don't want to appear to be too callous, but all too many times we see young children who know exactly where the gun is hidden at. They know. Just like they know where their toys are at Christmas time. Parents, we're the only ones think we're hiding things from kids. Kids know. Guns on the shelf, so the kid goes and gets the gun, and they play with the gun and somebody gets shot. But the parents are never held responsible for their involvement in that, and so safe storage, pushing for safe storage, is one part of it. \n\nLaw enforcement tracking crime guns. If we can see where the guns start at, and then begin to actually prosecute those who are selling the weapons out of the back door. Right now, it's known that 95% of the guns that are involved in criminal activity are sold by five percent of legal gun dealers. They call them bad apple gun dealers. It's sort of like with pharmacists who illegally sell narcotics out the back door, bad apple pharmacists. We have gun dealers the same way. And it's like five percent of the legal gun dealers are bad apple gun dealers, but they're responsible for 95% of the guns that are on the street. Straw purchases and everything. They turn their heads to straw purchases. When somebody else goes and purchases a gun, and they know this is going to be given to somebody else, or somebody comes in and buys an arm load of guns, or comes back every week buying guns, and they just say, \"Okay, all right, everything's good?“ That should be illegal and prosecutable. \n\nBut they're protected. They're protected in the United States by an act that was passed not long ago, well some time ago, the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, which, it protects dealers from prosecution, from litigation, and manufacturers from litigation. So we've tried to take them into court, we're seeing some breakthrough now, but we've tried to take them into court and it's been extremely difficult trying to... And matter of fact, there's never been any prosecutions gone through on these people. It's insane. It's insane. \n\nOne of the most insane situations happened in the theater shooting, I believe it was in Colorado, in Boulder, Colorado. One of the parents of a young girl that was killed there, they were able to trace the weapon back to a specific gun dealer. They sued the gun dealer, and in court they lost because of PLCAA, this rule, Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. They lost because of that. And the parents had to pay a hundred thousand dollars to the gun dealer in legal fees. They had to pay. After losing their daughter to this gun violence. This guy should not have been able to purchase the weapon. They get to court. They lose in court because of this federal act. And then they have to pay a hundred thousand dollars to the gun dealer to cover their expenses. It's crazy. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=1547.0,1788.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nYou obviously believe in the power of policies and regulations and legislation and law. Let's get to that third P we talked about, you said the pastors. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=1788.0,1799.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"THOMAS DIXON\n\nThose pastors. Yeah. I've been dealing with gun violence prevention for a long time out in the streets, and I live in one of the cities that's adjacent to a city they call a holy city. And they call that the holy city because there's a church on every corner. There's so many pastors here and churches here that if there was pastoral involvement, if the Christian portion of Charleston would just step up and speak out against gun violence from the pulpit, and then advocate to their congregations to get out in the community, \"We need to talk about it, we need to act, we need to push, we need to vote for legislators that are going to push this issue, we need to hold them accountable...\" But our pastors are more concerned with what's coming into their churches than what's happening outside the door. \n\nAnd that's why I had to change my narrative. I could not stay inside of there because I knew the mission field was outside of the church. And not every pastor is me, and I don't expect them to be. But if we say that we love others the way we love ourselves, and we overlook the fact that our communities are suffering from gun violence, we overlook the fact that our educational system is broken in say North Charleston, to the point of having eight of the worst schools in South Carolina, if we overlook the fact that we have a food desert that's been in place in North Charleston for, oh, now what'd that be? 14 years or better. If we overlook the fact that we have people that work in our major medical institutions here that can't afford to get sick and go to the same place that they work at, and we are pastors from the pulpit that are teaching people, \"Love one another as you love yourself?” There's a bit of hypocrisy in that message going forth. \n\nThat's one of the biggest obstacles that I have to what I do. And even the interactions I've had in the past with the community, especially with younger ones in the community, younger advocates in the community. Because when they hear that word, Pastor Dixon, they make me with those people. \"Oh, shoot, you must be one of those people, one of those hypocritical pastors, that's why we don't go to church and everything.\" And for a long time, I wasn't actually accepted in those younger circles because of that stereotype, until they actually got to know me. Until they knew that I would be in the trenches with them, that I'm not just somebody that's going to talk about this advocacy, or somebody like the rest of them that avoid talking about it. I'm out here, I'm genuine in what I'm going to do. And my whole job is to uplift the community. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=1799.0,1982.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nTalk about some of those trenches that you went into with some of these young people. I mean, what was going on in Charleston that helped you bridge that gap with the younger activists? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=1982.0,1997.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"THOMAS DIXON\n\nWell, you know, I spoke already on the labor aspect, Fight for 15. These are youngsters out here in the street, youngsters who got to know me to know that I'm going to be out there in the street, fighting for that same cause that they fight for. Why? Because they have a right to live out the American dream just as anyone else. And just because a job is in a fast food restaurant, as they say, flipping burgers, or cleaning in a hotel, and COVID has proven it, what society calls inessential, this pandemic proved that they're essential workers. But they have not been paid adequately, living on pay scales that are long obsolete and should be updated. So the youth of the Fight for 15 saw Pastor Dixon out here in the street with them, somebody that they could talk to, somebody they could actually even confide in, aside from that. And it gave me a stronger credibility with them. \n\nIn the streets advocating for gun violence prevention in the aftermath of shooting, I've stood with families in the Lowcountry, so many that I can't remember their names, in the aftermath of losing a loved one to gun violence. No matter what the circumstance. Because a lot of people like to put caveats on who they're going to stand with or advocate. I don't care whether [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=1997.0,2097.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] were gang members or whatever. I don't care, because those parents loved those children and those family members. And so there are a lot of youngsters who saw me in that aspect out there in the streets with them, and who to this day, they continue to reach out to me and to embrace me. The OGs in the community. I have credibility with them because of my history. I got 30 years of street, born and raised in the projects. I've been to prison. So when I talk to the OGs, I don't use that term gangsta, but Original Godfathers, they respect where I'm coming from, because I am them. \n\nAnd then there's the activist community out here that I was introduced to over time, or actually was introduced to me overtime, because of the work I was doing. It was a natural fit. We couldn't avoid each other. But the work that I had been doing in the community, dealing with gun violence and wages and fighting for education and everything, it put me in that right position to be there for and with the younger activists as they were moving forward prior to Mother Emanuel and Walter Scott in 2015, 2014, 2013, because of the work that was being done already. And because of the rise of a focus on officer involved shootings, it kind of gave the community more of an open door to begin to organize around this. And ultimately it led to the formation of Black Lives Matter, or introduction into the Black Lives Matter movement, right here in Charleston and in North Charleston. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=2097.0,2229.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nI think in the future, as often happens, people are going to look back with a certain amount of romanticism about community activism and organizing around Black Lives Matter. Do you mind sharing some of the strengths, as well as maybe weaknesses, that emerged during that period? Obviously coming together to talk about police violence was a positive thing, but I'm sure it didn't go as smoothly as history may record one day. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=2229.0,2269.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"THOMAS DIXON\n\nAbsolutely. Smoothly? No, there were lumps and bumps, and I've been involved in community work, and just life, long enough to know that in every system or every organizing effort, there's going to be issues. \n\nI just didn't realize that when it comes to fighting for civil rights, the degree of issues that come up, agendas as we call them. There are people who get involved with the struggle for civil rights who are more concerned about themselves, than there are those who they claim to be struggling for. And the same thing happened in the aftermath of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Denzel Curnell right here in Charleston. And the other shootings. You have these people that just pop up, and they have their own agendas. But inside of those, there's always the real ones. There are always the real ones. And usually they're those who have been out on the battlefield for a while, kind of recognizable people. It's those new upstarts you have to be kind of careful about. And vet them a little bit, push them a little bit. \n\nSo when the Movement for Black Lives popped up and started moving forward, I had been with my virtual organization, the coalition. We had had a couple of rallies. We had a rally in the aftermath of Trayvon Martin. And my vision is always to expand on whatever. So it wasn't just about officer involved shootings. We dealt with officer-involved shootings, we dealt with black on white shootings, white on black shootings, when Black folks shoot Black folks. We talked about everything, domestic violence, bullying. That rally was pretty awesome. And that was one of the first rallies that I know that Muhiyidin d'Baha attended with me, who I had actually met right after Denzel Curnell was killed. I think that Denzel Curnell was killed in Bridgeville in like June of 2014. And I actually met Muhiyidin, I think that next month, July of 2014, up in the North area. Because we didn't know each other prior to then. \n\nBut we had a common bond of service at the street level. Not just understanding that yes, we do need advocates at the top and legislatively and all of this and the big wigs, but unless we organize at the bottom, we'll never influence those at the top. And together, we both understood that. Big age difference. Big age difference. I was like 30 years his senior, plus, which was kind of unusual. But those are the ties that gave me that inroad into a younger demographic. Whereas a lot of those who have been in the struggle a long time here in the Charleston area did not get that open door, because the younger generation were like, \"Man, y'all old people, y'all always trying to tell us what to do, and telling us, 'Don't do this' and 'Don't do that.'\" When I just came in and I told them, \"I respect what you have to say. Let's sit down and, as we say on the street, chop it up. Let's talk about it.\" You know? \"I've got an opinion, you've got a opinion. I'm going to respect what you have to say, and I'm never going to try to tell you what to do.\" \n\nAnd because of that, it's opened the door for me to be a part of the movement moving forward. Not just Trayvon, not just Mike Brown, moving forward Denzel Curnell, Walter Scott, Mother Emanuel, Breonna Taylor, Ahmaud Arbery, the whole nine. Now I'm still active, at 69 years old, with the younger generation of activists that are out here in the street. When they look for a conversation, they will call me up. When they look for advice, they will call me up. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=2269.0,2550.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nIs there a bridging across generational lines emerging in Charleston as a result of all of those years of incidents and activism? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=2550.0,2560.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"THOMAS DIXON\n\nI believe that there's a bridging, but it's a slowly built bridge, because there aren't a lot of older activists out here that relate to the youth like I do. One of the things with the new generation of activists that are out the streets now, in the aftermath of George Floyd last year, the new generation, they're begging for participation. They've been begging for a year and a half for participation from who they call the elders. One of the most common questions that I get from them, \"Where are the rest at? Where are the other elders? We got you. We know that if we got something going on, you will be there. Where are the rest of them at?\" ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=2560.0,2617.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nWhere are they? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=2617.0,2619.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"THOMAS DIXON\n\nI can't answer that question. They're comfortable inside of those four walls, saving each other and talking about what's going on in the street instead of being about what's going on in the street. And it takes that sustained presence in the streets for those that are out there to say, \"Okay, all right, all right, we receive you. We receive you.\" I'm not there just because I said I'm Pastor Dixon. I'm there because they see me with them, standing with them, fighting with them. If they go to jail, they know where to call. They're going to court, they know who's going to be there with them. And that should not just be my job. That should be a community wide job, especially for those that are in positions in community. Our pastors, our politicians. That should be where all of them are, the elders of the community. It's ironic that that question even has to come up, and it's a question that I can't answer. Where are they? I don't know. I know where they're not. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=2619.0,2693.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nIf you recognize that this interview is going to be heard 5, 10, 20 years from now, whenever, what do you think you want to make sure you have imparted for the historical record about how to successfully organize, galvanize, sustain the kind of social movements that obviously are going to be needed for a long time? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=2693.0,2732.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"THOMAS DIXON\n\nYeah. There are a few things that really do need to happen, and things that I struggle with. Getting others to understand within the subset of ethnicity, to understand that what affects one direct affects all indirectly. So, being a part of a Fight for 15, an economic struggle, does not exempt you or give you a pass from being a part of the fight to end gun violence. Or being a part of the fight to end gun violence doesn't mean I don't need to go into the PTA meetings and represent in the cause for quality public education. Organizationally, if I could just get people to understand that all of these causes fit together... Yes, you might have your primary focus, but that doesn't mean, when there's issues about the other social justice issues, that you don't show up. No, it means that you go and stand with them too. \n\nAnd the more that we could begin to stand together, even if it's not our specific cause, the more we will show this world that we're not playing with them when it comes to social justice. Numbers count. Numbers matter. And there's been too few of us fighting this cause for far too long. Of course there are distractions out here. I mean, when we underpay people and they have to work two and three jobs and we say, \"Well, I need you to show up at a school board meeting or come out in the streets,\" like, \"Man, I got to go to work. I can't do it.\" So those are all part of the fight. \n\nMoving forward, and I talk to the younger activists, a lot about this— it's about respecting the system that we're in and still being able to fight against that system. You have to know the system. I'll tell them in a heartbeat, \"Don't just come acting on emotions. Emotions are not going to get you where we need to be. Be strategic. Be smart. Know your history. Read. Don't just go grab a sign and a bullhorn and go say, ‘I'm going to change the world.’\" No. I would hope that moving forward, those who get involved in social justice activism will understand that loose lips sink ships, and social media is killing us. You don't have to tell everything you're going to do. Don't do it. Because there are people who are plotting against the poor and underprivileged of America every day. And you never know what the plan is until it's been carried out. We need to act in that same way, strategically, when it comes to doing what we do. \n\nYes, there are times to speak out, but there are other times to step back, plan, put contingencies in place. Watch out for how the system of the oppressor is going to react to what we're doing and be ready to act accordingly. This is war. And I guess that's one of the things that gets me up every day, because this is war, and our children and their children are at stake. So as I see our younger activists coming up, I would hope that they are starting to learn these lessons. If I had my way, if I could go back now 10 years and redo it with a different set of older activists, instead of those that have agendas, those who were in it for power or fame, or have no problems... I'm going to use the word, I hate to use it, have no problems selling out our community? \n\nIf I could have found a group 10 years ago, if I could have found three more Muhiyidin d'Baha, we could have changed South Carolina. Because he came with a pure heart. And there were others in that era that came with a pure heart. But those who did not have that spirit, they were overwhelming, they outnumbered. And they're the ones who, unfortunately, a lot of them are still out here. There are really some great people though, 10 years ago, some that are still fighting in different areas right now. But those would be the ones that could have had the potential, really, had we gotten the support and the backing from those in power, from our political people. \n\nWe got some political people right now to this day that just need to go. They need to go somewhere. I don't care where, but out of office, because they're hampering, they're hindering, the progress that we could have made. We could have been so much farther along right now. Same thing with those pastors, same thing with our law enforcement, same thing with just about every aspect of our community. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=2732.0,3068.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nYou would think that the tragedy at Emanuel... and all the other individual unnecessary deaths, but especially with all the worldwide attention to Emanuel, that that would've presented an opportunity for folks to come together. Are you at all discouraged or encouraged or have any thoughts about how something as dramatic as the killing of nine prayerful people- ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=3068.0,3106.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"THOMAS DIXON\n\nYes. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=3106.0,3107.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\n... did not move that needle? Do you have an understanding of, what then will it take? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=3107.0,3121.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"THOMAS DIXON\n\nThat last part. What then will it take? Because it's insane that this area could have gone through that level of trauma and tragedy collectively, and allow the emotion that was associated with that to not generate positive change. Without the chaos and upheaval happening. But the people allowed that -- complacency to set in, instead of understanding that that moment was another moment that constituted the fierce urgency of now. \"We need to move now. We need to get this done now.\" Excuse me, I've got this darn cold. \n\nThey went and held hands on a darn bridge singing kumbaya, 10,000 strong, and two weeks later we couldn't get anybody to stand at Mother Emanuel and say, \"We need a hate crimes bill.\" Here we are now six years later, South Carolina still doesn't have a hates crime bill. Six years later, we still haven't closed the Charleston loophole that put the gun in that man's hand. And six years later, the memory of Mother Emanuel is still a kumbaya moment. That's all it is. And kumbaya moments, they set up situation like that to happen again. We did nothing. We got some trees down on Calhoun Street. First off, we got some trees on Calhoun Street, a street named after a white supremacist, that they chopped out a section says now Mother Emanuel Way. But you got to go from Calhoun into Mother Emanuel and still got to get to Calhoun. So we're still couched in the slavery and in white supremacy. \n\nBut the impact, the change that could have come out of that, it was suppressed because the people didn't react the way that reactions happened around this nation in the aftermath of tragedy like that. Because the people here took the high road, and said, \"We're not going to do that.\" And because of that, wrongfully, what could have happened didn't happen. Instead of taking this as a learning moment, a teachable moment, a moment where we can actually move forward and have real change without tearing up something, folks just went back to sleep. Today it's no different than June 16th, 2015, the day before Mother Emanuel. Today is the same as that. Nothing's changed. And that could be just the cynic in me, I don't know. But to me nothing's changed. Nothing's changed. There's been no movement. As a matter of fact, it's gotten worse. In the city of Charleston now, we have an ordinance that restricts the First Amendment rights of those to protest, signed on by a city council that just happens to be a third African American, and a mayor who was put in place, in power, twice by Black folks. \n\nNow, the only people that get harassed downtown are Black folks. I went downtown in Charleston for my wife's birthday and our anniversary, and we had dinner, we went to a show and everything, and I'm on social security, I don't really have money, so I watch my money, I watch my money. But I spent about $300 that night on King Street. And while we were walking down there, I told her, I said, \"You know, if you and I weren't together, if it was myself and Justin Hunt and Jason Jones together right now, we would be surrounded by the police handcuffed on our way to jail, because we're not supposed to come and hang out on King Street like that.\" I drove past there after the Spotlight Awards on Saturday night down King Street. And there were groups of white people and all around, all of these violations of this First Amendment ordinance that they passed. And it's okay for them, but it's not okay for Black people, and that's not okay. \n\nAnd it seems like after Mother Emanuel, we wouldn't have gone backward, but we have. We have. How do we fix that? I don't know, but I know one thing. It gives me more pause, or more cause, to get up every day and fight this fight, because I'm not going to leave the door open for another generation to have to put up with what I didn't do. If it's within my power, the change will come, because I'll stay in the streets until I drop in the streets. That's the only option I have. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=3121.0,3477.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nThank you. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=3477.0,3477.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"THOMAS DIXON\n\nThank you. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=3477.0,3480.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nThank you. Thank you, thank you. [inaudible","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=3480.0,3480.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"] good. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=3480.0,3481.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"): Person off-camera\n\nReal quick before we end, I want to do one minute of no sound. So if everyone could just be quiet for one minute. [Silence] \n\nAll right. Thank you. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=3481.0,3547.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382/transcript/84192/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nThank you. \n\n ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/160072/file/291382#t=3547.0,3548.287"}]}]}]}