{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/hx15m63f6p/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Jeffrey Helsing, March 2, 2023"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2023-03-02 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewer"]},"value":{"en":["Whalen, Emily"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewee"]},"value":{"en":["Helsing, Jeffrey"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eJeffrey (Jeff) Helsing joined the International Peace Academy while in graduate school at Columbia University, where he became John Mroz's research assistant and accompanied Mroz on various trips to Beirut during the Lebanese Civil War. Helsing was one of the original employees of the EastWest Institute at its founding, and helped coordinate the Institute's first conference in Romania in 1983. Later, he went on to complete his Ph.D. and to a successful career at the United States Institute for Peace. He concludes the interview with advice for students of international relations.\u003c/p\u003e (abstract)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Contributing Institution"]},"value":{"en":["College of Charleston Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Media Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral History"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Personal or Corporate"]},"value":{"en":["Abu Jihad","Arafat, Yasir","Ceaușescu, Nicolae","EastWest Institute","International Peace Academy","Mroz, John Edwin","Munaẓẓamat al-Taḥrīr al-Filasṭīnīyah","Rikhye, Indar Jit","United States Institute of Peace","Wallach, Ira"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Topical"]},"value":{"en":["Cold War","Diplomacy","History","Non-governmental organizations","Peace-building","Post-communism","Track two diplomacy"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Geographic"]},"value":{"en":["Europe, Central","Europe, Eastern","Jordan","Lebanon","Middle East","Pakistan","Romania"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type IMT"]},"value":{"en":["video/mp4"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright © College of Charleston\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date Digital"]},"value":{"en":["2023-04-06"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eJeffrey (Jeff) Helsing joined the International Peace Academy while in graduate school at Columbia University, where he became John Mroz's research assistant and accompanied Mroz on various trips to Beirut during the Lebanese Civil War. Helsing was one of the original employees of the EastWest Institute at its founding, and helped coordinate the Institute's first conference in Romania in 1983. Later, he went on to complete his Ph.D. and to a successful career at the United States Institute for Peace. He concludes the interview with advice for students of international relations.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright \u0026copy; College of Charleston\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/184/510/small/Helsing_Jeff_Mar2023.mp4_1680828792.jpg?1680828793","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Helsing_Jeff_Mar2023.mp4"]},"duration":3019.936,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/184/510/small/Helsing_Jeff_Mar2023.mp4_1680828792.jpg?1680828793","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-cofc.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/184/510/original/Helsing_Jeff_Mar2023.mp4?1680828789","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":3019.936,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Transcript of Interview with Jeffrey Helsing, March 2, 2023 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nOkay. My name is Emily Whalen. It is March 2nd, 2023, and this is an oral history for the EastWest Institute Oral History Project. If you could go ahead and introduce yourself to us. Let us know your name and what your relationship with the EastWest Institute is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2.0,18.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JEFFREY HELSING\n\nGreat. Thank you, Emily. I'm Jeff Helsing, currently executive director of the Better Evidence Project at the Carter School at George Mason University where I'm also an associate professor. I have the distinction of being the first person hired at the, what then was Institute for East-West Security Studies. I had been working with John Mroz at the International Peace Academy as his research assistant. And as a result when he started the Institute for East-West Security Studies, I was hired sort of as a person that would help coordinate our work, help also be his executive assistant and do a lot of, not the administrative work, but a lot of the coordinating work between the substance and the goals that we had laid out for the institute itself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=18.0,93.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nWonderful. Tell us how you first met John Mroz. You mentioned the International Peace Academy, but if you remember exactly kind of when and how you guys became connected.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=93.0,105.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JEFFREY HELSING\n\nWell, I don't remember the exact first moment I met him, but I was a master's student at Columbia University in the School of International Affairs. One of the things that the university did, which was part of its appeal to students like myself, is they had a very extensive internship program. I built something out, applied and was given an opportunity to work for the International Peace Academy, which was, it's now the International Peace Institute, but it was then affiliated with the United Nations and was doing a lot of training around conflict resolution, preventive diplomacy, and worked both with diplomats in New York, but also did peacekeeping training skills elsewhere in the world.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=105.0,173.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I was involved in one of the projects in which was a peacekeeping training in Jordan in 1981. My role was doing research and background and gathering materials and sort of being the secretariat for, excuse me, a couple of the trainings we did in New York and then the one that we did in Jordan. And that was part of my academic experience or my academic curriculum at Columbia at the time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=173.0,213.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nAnd you mentioned serving as a research assistant for John Mroz. What sort of projects did you work on with him at IPA?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=213.0,221.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JEFFREY HELSING\n\nSo he had just published a book called Beyond Security. And he had it in mind a subsequent book that would focus on the role of third parties in helping to manage, mitigate, prevent conflict. And so some of what I was doing was sort of beginning to do the initial spade work and laying the groundwork for that potential publication. And that very much fit within the scope of what the International Peace Academy did. Once he went on to found the Institute for East-West Security Studies, that became very much a side project that whether he ever came back to it, I don't know, but it sort of just lay fairly dormant after the institute began.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=221.0,289.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nDid you do a lot of traveling with John in the Middle East?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=289.0,295.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JEFFREY HELSING\n\nA couple of times. One was to the training in Jordan, and then I accompanied John to Lebanon twice. And those included meetings. This was in the late fall of 1981. These included meetings with both Yasser Arafat and one of his two main lieutenants at the time, Abu Jihad.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=295.0,334.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nThat must have been quite the experience to be in Lebanon at that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=334.0,340.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JEFFREY HELSING\n\nWell, if you were going into what essentially was a civil war. Beirut was divided up into different zones which were effectively controlled by different armed groups. One of the things I remember most and is very pronounced because I've been to Beirut many times since then, but my first exposure to Beirut was flying into the airport and seeing... There were a couple of lanes on the side of the tarmac that had been bombed. They were craters all over the area out near the runway. And when we were going to be staying in West Beirut, which was under the control of the PLO as if you will guess of the PLO.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=340.0,394.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There's a main highway that the airport is south of the city and there's sort of a main highway that goes north into the city. We would drive along that highway and all of a sudden all the traffic just sort of took a left turn over the median, over the curb and following these tracks that went behind buildings and down alleys and so on and so forth because the main highway was too dangerous and different groups were fighting over the highway, shooting across the highway, et cetera.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=394.0,435.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So that was quite an introduction to Beirut. And the other thing I remember was when we got into the PLO controlled area, you go through a checkpoint and even though we were supposedly guests, they had to look around the car, they had to check who we were. I remember there was this young man with what I took to be an AK-47, but a significant semiautomatic weapon. He couldn't have been more than 12 or 13.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=435.0,477.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He was pointing that thing around in ways that just made you really nervous that if this kid gets scared or if there's a sudden commotion, and he's got his finger on the trigger what's going to happen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=477.0,491.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nGot you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=491.0,492.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JEFFREY HELSING\n\nSo it was very much a very heightened experience.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=492.0,503.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nSure. Did you sit in with the meetings with Yasser Arafat and Abu Jihad?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=503.0,508.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JEFFREY HELSING\n\nOnly one. And it was very late at night and it was at Abu Jihad's apartment. One of the things that was really interesting was as a young American, you have preconceptions about, \"Well, this is the leadership of the PLO.\" All the rhetoric has been, this is a terrorist organization and so on and so forth. Putting all that aside, there were two things that I came away with from the encounter. One is Arafat was exhausted. And even though he was famous for working in the early morning hours, he was tired and John was trying to talk about language where there might be agreement in this finding a way to which the US might be able to engage with the PLO or at least through this back channel, find common ground that could contribute to the peace process.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=508.0,598.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that was pretty much going back and forth. Well, I don't know about this. What do you think about that? A typical process of exploration. But Abu Jihad was delightful. He was warm and open, talked about his family, asked about my family where I came from. And that was really interesting because at that time I felt, \"Oh, I can see how personal relationships can become really important in this kind of work.\" It's not that it diminishes any part of the politics or the kind of stakes that were at play here, but you can see how somebody could use charm personality, want to make a connection as a way of putting you at ease or making it easier for you to listen to them or make a compromise or whatever it happens to be. So for someone who had just turned 25, that was very interesting sort of experience in that regard.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=598.0,701.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nAnd then the fall of 1981, that's also around the time that John was starting to make plans for... Starting what became known as the EastWest Institute. Tell me a little bit about your observation of that process and how you were involved.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=701.0,720.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JEFFREY HELSING\n\nWell, I don't remember exactly when, but at some point I transitioned to or from the International Peace Academy to what was going to become the EastWest Institute. I had gotten my degree by then, so I was really pretty much working full-time. And the way I think it worked, if I remember right, Ira Wallach was very involved with the International Peace Academy, and that's where he and John met. And then what I remember is that Ira was going to and did provide the seed money for the institute. I was going to the offices of the International Peace Academy, but I was really almost exclusively dedicated to the new plans and development of this new institution.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=720.0,797.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"At some point, and again, I think it started before we actually became \"official\", but we got a little small suite of offices on 45th Street right around the corner from the International Peace Academy or maybe a block and a half away because I think the IPA was 44th and first and we were on 45th just sort of halfway down the block between first and second. We started there. John brought on a vice president, a guy named Mickey Neiditch who had been... Mickey's strengths were, he had a real interest in the Middle East, but more importantly, he was very immersed in American politics.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=797.0,850.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He had come out of the... been a congressional staffer. And so part of the plan was to, in order to launch something like the Institute, you needed to have good connections in Washington along with the connections John had at the UN and overseas and so on. So that was the initial team, if you will.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=850.0,883.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nWhat made you want to be involved with the Institute for East-West Security Studies? I imagine you had a lot of options after graduating from Columbia. Why did you want to stick with John? Why did you want to go to IEWSS?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=883.0,900.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JEFFREY HELSING\n\nBuilding something from the ground up. I mean, that seemed like a really, very unique, really interesting opportunity. And one could see the potential for this. I saw John in action in the Middle East. I saw him in action as he worked with people from all different political stripes internationally. What was really interesting was the notion of bringing people together.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=900.0,947.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that was the essential core element of this new institution. And to be honest, what John had in mind was to build off of a process that had paid some out to some degree in the Middle East, but really take that and expand it to the existing Cold War and find ways of bridging divides between East and West. And to do so, there had to be a process of communication. We didn't talk about it at this way at the time, but it couldn't just be a lot of track one stuff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=947.0,1000.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What John was doing was really, I think track one and a half. This wasn't civil society organization. These wasn't people that we needed to bring together who could find common ground and then we could transfer those ideas up into the official circles. This was to bring people who already had the connections to the official circles, but put them in a safe place where they could share ideas and communicate. And they had to have the background and the connections to be taken seriously is seriously by diplomats and policy makers, et cetera.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1000.0,1046.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so that was the idea behind that. And to his great credit, Ira Wallach said, \"This makes sense. This is a great way to change the tone, change the dynamic and work a bit behind the scenes, but very transparently so that we could be a bridge between East and West. So that was really the core strategy behind this. Considering what I had been studying in school. I had been a history major as an undergraduate and had focused a lot on Eastern Europe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1046.0,1099.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So this resonated with me also because I had done a couple of big projects and been a research assistant to a professor that was looking at the origins of the Cold War. So this was very much in my sphere of interest as well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1099.0,1119.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah. Tell me a little about the projects that you worked on in these early years at the Institute.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1119.0,1130.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JEFFREY HELSING\n\nI worked on a little bit of everything. We were pretty small when we started. The key things that I remember were we had two tracks in which we brought, I think we called them fellows, but we grew up fellows together to explore areas of common interest. We had the Middle East fellows and I was probably more involved in that because John knew that the ultimate success of this institution lay with the East-West fellows, the fellows from East Europe and West Germ.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1130.0,1178.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I was a bit more involved in just coordinating the work of the Middle East fellows, but I was also quite engaged in working with the East and West fellows. And the key to that was we had a good representation of East, West and neutrals. Again, that created a safe space. Most of these were young diplomats or what we would call more junior level civil servants, but who worked primarily in foreign affairs ministries.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1178.0,1228.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Although, the German who came actually worked in the defense ministry, but he was an analyst. And the key was they were all officially sanctioned by and given permission by their respective governments. So that first year with that first cohort convincing the government of Hungary and the government of Poland to send two individuals was a huge step forward.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1228.0,1263.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that was able then to enable the Western governments as well as Austria, which had in a sense participate seriously as well. And the other thing, I would mention is that part of the way this worked was John and Ira were able to really build a top notch, right out of the gate board of directors. He had a couple of retired diplomats. General [Willy] Kuntner of Austria, a very well respected, retired Austrian general who had been engaged in UN peacekeeping.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1263.0,1319.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"All of that was really critical. And John used his connections from the International Peace Academy, which had been headed by General [Indar Jit] Rikhye who had been the head of the UNF forces in the Sinai. He made use of those connections to bring onto the board individuals who could give wait to the requests for these young diplomats to come and be in residence at the institute.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1319.0,1352.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So making all that happen and staying on top of it, coordinating it, reaching out to board members, getting their suggestions. Sean was the primary mover of this, but it needed a lot of follow up. So that was a lot of what I was doing. I was coordinating things back in the office and doing a lot of follow up with the board and others and make sure that when something was asked for that it was provided. We connected to the United Nations.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1352.0,1391.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I remember I had a pass to go to the United Nations and run into their library and do research and get information and that sort of thing. So all of that was really critical in laying the groundwork. And then the last thing was we also... IRA put up a lot of funds, but this couldn't be Ira Wallach's pet project. We had to get additional fundings and we had to bring on board serious funders, including foundations. We went to and got some funds. We got some funds from the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, and again, brought people who were working with Ford, were working with Rockefeller and brought them onto the board of directors. So give people a stake in the outcome was a very helpful and strategy that paid off.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1391.0,1457.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYou were with the institute in these early stages. And in the conversation about the institute's history, I think a lot of people think of that period of time as a period of rousing success for John and for the Institute. Were there any setbacks during that time that you remember? What were they like? What did you learn from them?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1457.0,1481.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JEFFREY HELSING\n\nWell, there were a few setbacks and there were some real challenges that had to be overcome. One of the setbacks was we had to pivot away from the Middle East. That was just going to drag us down. We had this group of young Middle Eastern fellows. They produced a joint document and we even got the trilateral commission to publish a monograph of it. And that's as much as we could get out of that. And then we had to pivot really to what had to be our bread and butter, which was the East-West issues.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1481.0,1539.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Going to Romania in 1982 was both a huge risk and had the potential to be a great payoff. And the risk was we were being co-opted. This was off the show for Ceaușescu and the foreign minister, Stefan Andrei. They used it and we had to be very mindful of the image that came with cooperation and collaboration with the Ceaușescu government. And this was to John's great credit, or at least from my perspective is he was doing so many different things. We were engaged in so many different kind of projects and bringing in the money and cementing up the board and so on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1539.0,1614.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He sent me off by myself to Romania and was like, \"Yeah, go make it happen. Get all the details.\" And so what I ended up doing was I went to Romania and sat there and negotiated with the foreign ministry of Romania to host this, and where were we going to do it? And we're going to go to this sort of lake snob off retreat area for the Romanian elites and so on and so forth. And every detail had to be hashed out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1614.0,1656.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The other thing was, to be honest about it, the Romanians, A, they were excited because this fit with Ceaușescu semi-independent foreign policy, but they were also desperate for Western currency. And so we were bringing in a lot of funds. So I had that as leverage too. But what was really... And then what I did was all the arrangements, this is what we're going to do. This is how we're going to do it. John had convinced one of the early board members, Johan [Jorgen] Holst, who subsequently, he was the head of a Norwegian think tank, but he subsequently becomes Minister of Defense much later and he's very instrumental in the Oslo courts.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1656.0,1713.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But at the time, Holst was in Vienna and I was in Romania. So I flew from Romania to Vienna and he and I sat down, Johan Holst and I sat down and sort of mapped it all out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1713.0,1728.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nWow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1728.0,1729.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JEFFREY HELSING\n\nJohn is still back in the states. He was saying, this is how we're going to do this. Holst is going to be the chairman of this conference and here's how it's going to... Here's the run of show here. Here's how it's going to do. Here's who we've got commitments to come, et cetera, et cetera. And the risk was twofold. One, it would look like we got snowballed by the Romanians. And secondly, in the end, the right people didn't show up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1729.0,1769.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But they did. And in fact, it was a really, really interesting conference. Some of the more informal sessions, we had little working groups and so on and the informal sessions were really open. We had Poles and we had Romanians and we had Hungarians. I don't recall any Czechs, but I'd have to go back and look. But we had enough people that it made it significant and the Americans who were there felt it really did accomplish something. One member of the board who I give incredible credit to, partly because I learned so much from him, it's a man named Harold Saunders, Hal Saunders.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1769.0,1830.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hal Saunders had participated for a long time in what was called the Dartmouth Conference. And that was an exchange between Soviets in Americans. He had been assistant Secretary of State from the Middle East. He'd been very engaged in the Camp David process, but he became convinced of the importance of problem solving workshops and this track one and a half process, which could contribute to official negotiations.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1830.0,1873.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"As a way to do that, these kinds of meetings, which he had already a lot of experience with and was involved in Dartmouth at the same time he was on the board of the institute. That gave us a lot of credibility He made a lot of really great suggestions. The other thing that John did was, and I don't know if this was terribly unusual, but he was involved in the media.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1873.0,1909.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In Romania, the one person I remember who was critical is then New York Times columnist named Flora Lewis. Flora Lewis was, she was up for almost anything. \"Oh, you want me to go to Romania? What a great idea. I wouldn't get there any other way.\" So she tags along and does a couple of great columns after the fact and starts promoting what we're doing because who goes to Romania in 1982 and gets the kind of insights that will really strengthen her column?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1909.0,1952.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"A year later, Bernie Gwertzman and Leslie Gelb and others from the media were all in Ditchley [Park] in England. So that had always been an important part of what John wanted to do. The last thing I'll mention because you said was there risk? The ultimate risk was, we got a little over our skis a little bit on it, was how to deal with the Soviets.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1952.0,1987.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There, I think I would say John rushed too fast. He tried to bring the Soviets in too soon. And that was risky because the value of what we had created in those first couple of years was creating a safe space for an East-West dialogue that was not going to be dominated by the Soviets. And you could get Hungarians and East Germans and Romanians and others to show up, but they would just defer to the Soviets.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=1987.0,2030.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So if you really wanted to have more transparent and honest dialogue, the Soviets couldn't be there. At one point, I remember him saying, God, this whole thing in Romania may fall apart because the Soviets just aren't going to come. Turned out, thank God they didn't come. And thank God they actually didn't show up at the end in Ditchley a year later, and they didn't show up in Austria.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2030.0,2065.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He kept thinking that was going to be the holy grail, but I think he underestimated, as events subsequently play out at the end of the '80s. I think he misread the fact that there was room for East Europeans to work independently of the Soviets. And we began to really see this in the way in which the East Europeans embraced the fellowship program. They came to the meetings. They were active contributors. They worked the margins and they looked for how they could make a difference and they didn't get in trouble with the Soviets and so on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2065.0,2118.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that became valuable for the West Europeans to have these engagements that could be much more realistic and honest. So I think that was to my way of thinking, a blessing that John's view that... I'll be honest, he really worried a lot that this whole thing is not going to work in the end because we can't get the Soviets. And because we can't get the Soviets, \"Well, some in the American government aren't really going to take us all that seriously 'cause this is just kind of a sideshow.\" This is all the East Europeans, the West Europeans. That's not really significant.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2118.0,2171.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But in fact, it turned out to be very much so, and particularly not that any of us would've predicted this in '83 or '84, but think about the way in which the Soviet Union collapsed and the work that the institute then was able to do post Soviet collapse.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2171.0,2193.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah. That's amazing. You mentioned serving as the bridge between the substantive and the more logistical side of things. And obviously you were the jack of all trades, keeping things going. What are you proudest of, of your time at the EastWest Institute?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2193.0,2216.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JEFFREY HELSING\n\nA lot of what I just talked about. I mean, to be honest... So in Snagov in Romania. My roommate because we had to double up, particularly if you were younger. If you were an ambassador, you got your own room, but if you weren't, you know how it is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2216.0,2236.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nThe way of the world.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2236.0,2239.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JEFFREY HELSING\n\nMy roommate this... I mean, he was older than I was, but he was relative junior Polish diplomat named Daniel Rotfeld who ends up becoming the head of SIPRI [Stockholm International Peace Research Institute]. It was some of out of being part of this process that gave people a place and a space to explore common ground. And to me that was probably what I took most from that. And it's probably why in my own professional career I've been very, very engaged in conflict resolution. And those first couple of years at the institute, they were a lab in how to mediate between people who didn't necessarily agree. I was negotiating at age 25 with the Romanian foreign ministry. I learned a lot about what leverage is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2239.0,2310.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nI bet.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2310.0,2311.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JEFFREY HELSING\n\nSo all of that really laid the groundwork for work that I subsequently did in my long career, particularly at the US Institute of Peace. But it was also, we felt what we were doing was significant and was making a difference. We had no idea how soon that would be put to the test.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2311.0,2343.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nWhen and why did you make the decision to move on from the EastWest Institute?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2343.0,2349.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JEFFREY HELSING\n\nI left in the summer of 1984 and I went back to Columbia to get a PhD. My decision was pretty simple. Well, one, I was pretty burned out. There were times I lived in West Chester County and there were occasions when I just missed the last train back to Terry Town. And so I slept on the floor of the Institute for East-West Security Studies, and I was a little tired of that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2349.0,2391.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"John was nonstop, 24 hours a day. John had a country house out in Massachusetts and we were up there working on something, I don't know, over the weekend because we had to get it done and there was a deadline and so on and so forth. So we're driving back from Massachusetts to New York City and he's driving, and I'm in the passenger seat, and we never stopped. We're going on and on and on, and I'm writing things down and we're going back and forth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2391.0,2429.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He lived in the Western part of Massachusetts to get back to New York City. He went on these long winding roads to get ultimately the Sawmill Parkway or wherever it was. About halfway through, I said, \"John, I'm done. First, I got to stop. Secondly, we got to stop because I used to be carsick when I was a kid and I thought I was over it, but I'm not. I got to get out of this car.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2429.0,2460.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Most of the time, it was really useful, wonderful energy. But some of the time it was just frenetic. So that was part of it. But the other thing was in my role as sort of jack of all trades. As the institute got bigger and bigger, my role became much more administrative. I was actually approached by others who said, \"Oh, we would love for you to come work for us,\" including the Rockefeller Foundation wanted me and or wanted to see if I was available, et cetera.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2460.0,2499.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But they wanted me because of my connections and because I, in that short three-year period, had a lot of experience fundraising. I wrote good funding proposals and nobody likes to do that. And everybody wants somebody who can. I found myself sort of on the verge of, \"No, no. That's not the career path I want. I want to continue to be involved in all this substantive work, but as the institute grew and got bigger, there was less room for me to do that.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2499.0,2548.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And to be honest, John gave me an opportunity to edit the first monograph we were going to do on confidence building measures. I just never had time. I did it kind of on the side or late at night and so on. I realized that for me to really get where I wanted to go, I had to have some expertise. I had to go and get a PhD so I could really contribute substantively as opposed to just administratively. That's a way of put it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2548.0,2592.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nSketch out for us a little bit, how your career progressed after you left EastWest Institute? You mentioned you spent a long time with the US Institute for Peace.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2592.0,2600.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JEFFREY HELSING\n\nYeah. Well, two things happened. One is I thought what I wanted to do was get my PhD and become a foreign policy expert or a East West relations expert and so on. I began to realize that I would not do well or would have done well working for the government. I had a couple of professors who made the case at of ENO. What you needed to do is carve out an area of expertise for yourself, teach it, write about it, become an expert that people want to come to you rather than try and build your career up through being a senate form relations staff or working for a think tank or something like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2600.0,2668.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so I actually did a little bit of teaching at the end of my PhD program and I was surprised to find that I really liked it. And what that took me back to was some of the early training work that I had been involved with at the International Peace Academy. So I went and I actually was a professor at the American University in Cairo where I started doing a lot of work on conflict resolution and negotiations and that sort of thing, turning to the Middle East issues.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2668.0,2715.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I was hired there to start up a new international relations graduate concentration at the American University in Cairo. And that was a lot of fun. But what I realized was I wanted to find a way to bridge theory and practice. Interestingly enough and all... One of the first people we hired at the Institute for East-West Security Studies who did a lot of work on our public relations and writing, who had a master's degree from the Fletcher School, who then she and I also did our PhDs at Columbia at the same time, when I went off to Cairo, she went to the US Institute of Peace and oversaw their... Was one of the senior people doing their fellows program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2715.0,2782.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So she told me about a job at the Institute of Peace while I was still in the Middle East. And she said, \"This would be great for you and this.\" Then she said, \"It will go back to your old days at the Institute for East-West Security Studies because what they need is somebody that can do some seminars and workshops and trainings for faculty and teachers, which you've done that sort of thing before and you facilitated discussions.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2782.0,2817.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And after that, what they want is to find ways in which education and training can be expanded globally on the part of the Institute of Peace. And she said, and this place is great because it's small and it's growing and Congress is starting to really pay attention to it. It's just like the entrepreneurial spirit we used to have back at the institute free sweat security studies. So I said, \"Yes, sign me up.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2817.0,2850.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nWonderful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2850.0,2851.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JEFFREY HELSING\n\nWhich when I came I had all these interviews. It was great. And they were true to their word. It was pretty much, \"Yeah, if you got a good idea, run with it.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2851.0,2861.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nI love that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2861.0,2863.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JEFFREY HELSING\n\nAnd so that's something when the Institute for East-West Security Studies was starting that was a lot of how we were... Let's try it. And that spirit, I think was part of the real success of the institute.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2863.0,2882.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nThat's a perfect segue into what my next question was. With this archive, we're hoping to preserve the memory of the institute for future researchers, but it's also... We're hoping it will serve as a resource for current students of international relations. And I wonder from your time at EWI and your career afterwards, what advice you have for current students sort of at the undergraduate level of international relations?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2882.0,2910.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JEFFREY HELSING\n\nTwo things. One is be a very good listener. And secondly, be open to new opportunities. Don't get wedded to, \"This is where I'm going. This is how I'm going to get there.\" Most everybody I know who's been successful in this field has zigged and zagged and nothing ever seemed to have gone the way we thought it might have gone when we started down this path. And just being open to that. And the last thing I'll say, and this is a lesson that John really embodied is don't be afraid to fail.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2910.0,2965.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You have to learn from what doesn't work and you have to learn from your failures, but you'll never get something like this done or accomplished. If when you start out, you think, \"Geez, I don't know. This isn't going to work. Or that's really risky.\" We managed it. We were able to be flexible and adaptable enough so that when the Russians kept not showing up, we could still get so much out of what we'd already done and laid the groundwork for.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=2965.0,3007.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nWonderful. Well, I think that's a great place to wrap up our conversation. I'll pause the recording, but before I do that, I just want to thank you so much for your time and your insights, JEFFREY.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=3007.0,3017.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JEFFREY HELSING\n\nSure. Thank you, Emily.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=3017.0,3017.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510/transcript/43456/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nOne second.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/88958/file/184510#t=3017.0,3019.936"}]}]}]}