{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/jq0sq8rj4d/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Laurent Roux, May 16, 2022"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2022-05-16 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewer"]},"value":{"en":["White, John"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewee"]},"value":{"en":["Roux, Laurent"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eLaurent Roux relates his experiences on the Board of Directors for the EastWest Institute, recalling discussions with John Mroz around the Russian invasion of Georgia, military-to-military talks with Chinese leadership, and the importance of dialogue and Track-II diplomacy. \u003c/p\u003e (abstract)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Contributing Institution"]},"value":{"en":["College of Charleston Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Media Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral History"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Personal or Corporate"]},"value":{"en":["College of Charleston","EastWest Institute","Kendall, Donald M.","Meredith, Tom","Mroz, John Edwin","North Atlantic Treaty Organization"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Topical"]},"value":{"en":["Corporate culture","Geopolitics","International relations","Non-governmental organizations","South Ossetia War, 2008","Track two diplomacy"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Geographic"]},"value":{"en":["Georgia (Republic)","Hong Kong (China)","Russia"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type IMT"]},"value":{"en":["video/mp4"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright © College of Charleston\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date Digital"]},"value":{"en":["2022-01-25"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eLaurent Roux relates his experiences on the Board of Directors for the EastWest Institute, recalling discussions with John Mroz around the Russian invasion of Georgia, military-to-military talks with Chinese leadership, and the importance of dialogue and Track-II diplomacy.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright \u0026copy; College of Charleston\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/173/823/small/Roux_Laurent_May2022.mp4_1673964066.jpg?1673964067","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Roux_Laurent_May2022.mp4"]},"duration":2173.68,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/173/823/small/Roux_Laurent_May2022.mp4_1673964066.jpg?1673964067","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-cofc.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/173/823/original/Roux_Laurent_May2022.mp4?1673964063","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":2173.68,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Transcript of Interview with Laurent Roux, May 16, 2022 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOHN WHITE\n\nAll right. Hello, I'm John White. I am here doing an oral history interview for the East West Institute Society oral history project. Today is May 16th, 2022. Now I'm going to ask my interviewee to introduce himself his, his name, date of birth, and place of birth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=0.0,22.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nThank you, John. So my name is Laurent Roux. My date of birth is February 13th, 1954. And my place of birth is Geneva Switzerland. I have Swiss parents, and we immigrated to America in 1959 when I was five.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=22.0,39.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOHN WHITE\n\nTerrific. So my first question for this project is how did you first hear of the East West Institute?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=39.0,47.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nQuirk of fate? My wife, Lori does family history documentaries, and one of the board member's sons asked my wife to actually do a documentary on his mother. His mother was named Catherine Waserman Davis. She was one of the original supporters of EWI. The Davis family, Catherine and her husband were very, very well-known philanthropists on the east coast. Shelby Collum Davis was actually one of the four people who ran the Thomas E. Dewey campaign for president. He became the insurance commissioner of New York, and he then became a billionaire on Wall Street in insurance investments. His wife was the big philanthropist. So Catherine was turning a hundred and her son, Shelby, who lives part-time here in Jackson Hole, Wyoming asked my wife, Lori to do a documentary on his mother. The last person that was interviewed was John Edward Mroz.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=47.0,130.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nThe other people interviewed were all very famous, important people. So my wife asked me ... We were in New York and I was there on business and she was going to interview John on a Friday afternoon, but he was at the White House. So he called her and said, can't do it. Let's do it tomorrow morning in Central Park. So nine o'clock the next morning, Laurie and I and John met in Central Park. I basically was carrying the bags, the camera equipment, the sound equipment and all the rest of it. She did her interview with him over about an hour and a half. Then when it was over, he and I started chatting and we started talking about geopolitics. We sat down on a park bench and talked for about an hour, an hour and a half. At the end of it, he looked at Lori and he said, \"Who in the hell is this guy anyway?\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=130.0,186.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nShe said, well, it's my husband. He said, oh, very interesting. Then John looked at me, he said, \"Will you do me a favor and send me a bio?\" I said, okay. Three months later, he called me and said, \"I want to get you on the board.\" This was back in '07, I believe, 2007. So we were asked to join the board, which we did. As I had mentioned to you earlier, I was a board member and on the advisory board for like 14, 15 years, which was a fantastic, fantastic experience. There are plenty of stories in terms of where we had board meetings, the people that we met, the things that we did. I was the treasurer of the organization for many years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=186.0,237.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nI had the great pleasure of helping to wind down the institution while we decided to do that and transferred it to the University of Charleston, which we're all very grateful and happy about. The story that I was going to recant. Can I do that now or you want me to do it later? Okay. So the year is 2008. Russia invades Georgia, and one of the board members, original founding board members was a gentleman by the name of Don Kendall, and Don Kendall was the CEO and chairman of Pepsi in the fifties, sixties and seventies. He had done, as you may know, a lot of work with Russia and he was very close to the Russian leadership. So he knew everybody. As fate would have it, he and his wife then owned a ranch here in Wyoming about an hour and a half from where we live.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=237.0,300.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nRight after the invasion, it had nothing to do with the invasion, but I had asked John to come out and meet some friends of mine here in Jackson Hole, which he did. When the invasion occurred that week, John and I, and my wife, Lori looked at each other and we were having breakfast, and John looked at me and said, \"What do you think we should do? What should EWI be doing around this invasion? Or should we be doing anything?\" Because historically, as you may have learned, the US-Russia relationship was the basis for EWI's mission and original successes. So what happened? We started chatting. Then we called Don Kendall and Don said, \"Well, why don't you come down to the ranch and spend the weekend?\" So the three of us drove down there and we had dinner.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=300.0,358.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nWe talked about a number of different things, including the Georgia Russia situation. Next morning, he and his wife, and the three of us sat around a card table and had a chat. What's important for people to understand about EWI, of course, is this track two track one and a half diplomacy work that we always did. So the question was, what could we do to actually build out a track two exercise that would enable good communications, good relations, continued good relations between the US and Russia at a time when this invasion of Georgia was quite a big deal in the geopolitical sphere. So here's what we came up with. Let's organize a meeting somewhere in Europe, between 20 Russian business people and 20 US business people who are key players in Russia, in a private setting in the next six to 12 months.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=358.0,419.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nSo we actually did organize it in Switzerland and it did happen and it was quite a success, but what was quite amazing to me was that Don Kendall picked up the phone and called a couple of very important people in Moscow, on the spot, from his ranch in Wyoming, including the foreign minister [Sergey] Lavrov, who I think was foreign minister at the time. I can't recall a hundred percent, but anyway, Lavrov and a number of other people that were very high up, and they all agreed that this should happen. It was done quietly over about two hours, organized without publicity, in private. It happened, I think, nine months later. It was very successful in building, or if you will, holding up the bridge between the US and Russia. So, that's my story. That's one of the stories.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=419.0,482.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOHN WHITE\n\nSo, other than the work with Georgia, what other projects did you work on at EWI, particularly as part of your work as the treasurer, and how did you see yourself and your work in particular fitting in with the Institute's mission?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=482.0,500.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nWell, there are a couple of ways to answer that. One was with my wealth management background, and as treasurer, making sure that our endowment was sound and well managed. So I headed up the investment committee from the beginning being back in '07, '08, when one of the former board members, a gentleman by the name of Tom Meredith, who's a good friend of ours, who's based in Austin. He and I put together an institutional investment style process to manage this endowment. So I was involved with the fundraising piece for the endowment, overseeing the endowment in terms of the non-wealth management piece. We participated in a number of very interesting dialogues and meetings in different parts of the world. One was in Beijing in 2010. I think it was when a group of us went there to try to build out the EWI, built relationship with the People's Republic of China, which led to a number of different programs like the military to military talks and a couple of other projects.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=500.0,586.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nThe reason I was invited there was because of my 10 years in Hong Kong from 1985 to 1995. So we basically were pseudo diplomats and trying to exchange some kind of wisdom between ourselves and our counterparties to try to build a relationship. That's what we did. It ended up being quite successful. Now, when we went to Moscow, which we did once or twice, we had some very interesting meetings with parliamentarians, for example. Which today, as we live the Ukrainian invasion in war, come back to haunt, maybe some of us in the sense that the Russians at the time ... this would be eight, 10 years ago now, were bemoaning the fact that they were not members of the European area and the Euro zone economics, which is something that they always very much wanted to be a part of for historic reasons.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=586.0,655.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nThen of course, they talked about NATO. I'm not going to share everything that I might remember, and can't remember the other half, but the bottom line is that those were very interesting discussions because now when we look at the things that are coming from the Russian leadership, they're still bemoaning the same problem, and there wasn't much that was done there. So those would be two examples.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=655.0,684.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOHN WHITE\n\nLooking at current American foreign policy and the challenges in the world, you've talked about the People's Republic of China and Russia going back to '07, '08, they're still very much at the sort of center of American diplomacy in many ways, or American conflicts around the world. What were some of the differences that you experience working with say Russia versus China and working in different parts of the world? Cause you mentioned in your answer in Russia, you were reaching out when the invasion of Georgia with business leaders in China. You were working on trying to get military to military discussions. Are there different tactics that you use in different parts of the world here? What were some of these key differences between say the work that you were doing in Asia, as opposed to the work you were doing in Eastern Europe?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=684.0,737.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nWell, there might be a couple of ways to answer that John. One of them would be the cultural aspects that you have to take into consideration relative to the counterparties. Then the second one, I think that's really important, would be regardless of the culture. How well do you listen and how well do you ask questions that elicit a response that are not either patronizing or some other ... what's the word I'm looking for? Methodology or approach or something. But I think that the cultural piece is the most important. One of the things that John did very well was listen. He had ideas. He was a quick thinker. He was a great broker bringing people together as you've probably heard before, but he was a quick wit as well. He also made a big deal to whoever that he was speaking with, as we all did, about the privacy concept and the fact that what we're trying to do is between us as trusted parties. And if we can't do that and build a trust between us as we start, or as we continue in our endeavors together, then we're going to have a big problem because nothing's going to work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=737.0,820.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nSo, there's a certain amount of, well, a lot of honesty on the one hand to build that trust piece, but there's also a certain strategic approach to who you're speaking with and what you're going to say and how you're going to say it. So for example, if it would be with China, we want to make sure that, for example, to the simplest simplest notion, whoever we're speaking with and dialoguing with, we don't create a situation where they're losing face, where they feel disrespected. On the other hand, if we're talking to the Russian side, how do we get them to understand that we on the one hand respect them and that we will listen to them, but that on the other hand, as a superpower, there are a number of issues that are not going to be neglected that ... you're going to stand up to them, and the respect factor is different culturally than it would be in the case of the Chinese, if that makes sense.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=820.0,889.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOHN WHITE\n\nSo, you had many options with your background in law and finance. You've been on a number of different charitable boards and leadership positions. What was it about EWI that drew you in and made you want to be involved with that organization for so long?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=889.0,908.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nSo one simple thought, and that is privacy and non-public dialogue. I'm a firm believer in two phases of dialogue. When we're talking about these geopolitical issues that EWI was involved with, and I think the greatest thing that EWI did in terms of building trust and trying to make the world a better place, was dealing with people in a quiet, private setting. It didn't mean that the powers that be, whether it be the White House or the Kremlin, or the palace in Beijing didn't know what was going on, because they do, they did. But you could have a dialogue in private and try to build not just the trust piece, but issue dealing and resolution, or coming to some kind of common thread that pulled everybody together and made something happen. That happened in a number of ways, a number of times.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=908.0,974.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nIf my memory serves me correctly, John Mroz was instrumental in organizing, for example, the Oslo Accords. He was also instrumental in helping build the US Russia ICBM start talks in Geneva in '84, '85. I'm pretty sure that's accurate. I stand corrected if I'm not. But anyway, bottom line is that that sense of dealing with people one on one quietly behind closed doors with the track two conversation is what attracted me, because the other groups or institutions that I've worked with haven't, at the board level don't necessarily take that on because they're dealing with things differently. This is geopolitics and very serious business, of course. So, building that trust between the parties is absolutely mission critical to whatever you're going to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=974.0,1035.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOHN WHITE\n\nSo you and just about everyone else who we've spoken with speaks in such glowing terms about John Mroz. It seems like he was a remarkable man. Is there anything else you would like to share about him as the founder of EWI and his influence and impact on your work in the organization or just you in life?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1035.0,1060.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nWell, what I would share with everyone would be that John was a very pragmatic, practical, respectful person who knew and understood, as I said before, how to listen, but also how to bring people together, which is why I called him a broker. He was very quick off his feet. You could spot issues and have a very clear vision as to what the issue, what the challenge was relative to that issue. Then after that, tried to drill down and see, what can we do? How could we do it? He kept an open mind about things. He was respected by the people that he worked with and spoke with around the world.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1060.0,1110.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nHe was a micromanager in a lot of ways. He was a great leader in terms of what he did. He wasn't a great manager of the firm itself, of the organization itself, because he was too busy doing what he was doing. So luckily, we had other people below him, COOs and the rest of it, they were running the show internally, but bottom line is that he was dedicated, passionate to what he did. The rest of us, that is the board members in my case, we bought into that very easily because we had a great respect for what he was doing and how he was doing it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1110.0,1151.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nThen the other thing, the last thing I would add would be that most of the board members would probably say that there was kind of a family feel to the membership at EWI. That came from the fact that the people that John brought into the organization were collegial, were pretty open minded, pretty positive and enjoyed each other's company. He created a culture of trust and friendliness rather than an institutionalized stiff kind of dogmatic place. That was not EWI.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1151.0,1197.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOHN WHITE\n\nI think everyone who I've spoken with about the organization who was involved has used that word family in discussing the organization. Who else, other than John Mroz, did you work with the most closely at EWI? Is there anyone else who made a particularly strong impression on you during your work in the organization?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1197.0,1221.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nNo, I worked with a number of different people. I worked with John, I worked with the successors. Cameron Munter, case in point. I worked with the finance group very closely. I worked with the China group and there's nobody really in particular that needs to stand out other than John in terms of the impact that he had because the rest of us, to put it bluntly, were all pulling on the rope in the same direction. It was very collegial and very friendly. So board members work together when we had our investment committee meetings or our finance committee meetings, very constructive, very positive. We never had any issues, negative or anything. So I think I would just say it was great all around. Frankly, John, I'm grateful for the people that I met there and what we lived in that organization because it was absolutely phenomenal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1221.0,1301.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOHN WHITE\n\nSo were there setbacks when you were at EWI, and what were they and what did you learn from those setbacks?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1301.0,1308.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nWell, I don't know about set ... Well, I guess it is a bit of a setback. Number of us were quite ... We were diligent on the one hand and we were pushy on the other hand, but we wanted to create a succession plan, should anything ever happen to John. We needed John to participate and we needed John to loosen up on the micromanagement piece within the organization and build a process into that organization. That was not easy because John was very much a hands on kind of guy. So that was frustrating more than anything else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1308.0,1359.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nI think what's important for listeners is to understand that John Morose had this special personality of being able to bring people together who would not otherwise talk to each other. Most of us can't really do that or not necessarily that good at it. So from a succession point of view, it was important for us on the one hand to look at what makes this organization great at the leadership level. If we want to find successors to the chief, because you're going to need to do that at some point and you're better off starting sooner rather than later, what are the qualities, the human qualities that we need to find? Very, very difficult to find a clone of John. So that was tough. That was tough.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1359.0,1414.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOHN WHITE\n\nYou mentioned earlier when we were talking that you were part of the transition from the East West Institute to the Mroz Institute at the College of Charleston. So were you with the organization right up through it winding it down?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1414.0,1431.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1431.0,1431.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOHN WHITE\n\nWhat were your thoughts on sort of moving into this next life for the organization?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1431.0,1437.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nSo sad to see it happen, happy to see it happen. So sad. Why? Because we had a great organization, we were challenged by COVID. We were challenged by the US Russia relationship during the Trump years and all of the craziness that was going on in the US around the US Russia election conversations and all the rest of it. So trying to get to bring those two countries together was not easy. Challenging from a continuing concern point of view. We needed to make sure that we had either countries or institutions or individuals or families contributing to the organization annually, to the endowment and otherwise, to keep the business going. That became a big challenge for those two years. With my treasurer hat on, I had to wave the yellow flag and that started the conversations. We put together a team that was solid as a rock in order to deal with all of this. We are grateful that Hilton Smith stood up and said, come and think about Charleston.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1437.0,1526.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nThe transition to the university has been considered seen by all of us at the trustee level, I think, or almost all of us. I would say all of us as a really positive step to maintain what EWI was about and what is the positive impact it can have into the future. For example, in terms of the students thinking about going into international relations and how they're going to function, whether they're at the state department or somewhere else. And then maintaining the projects and making sure that the programs that we had have been within brackets farmed out to great organizations, whether it's Stinson or someone else. So we're pleased that all of that is going to continue. I think that, from a family point of view, the EWI members, at least the ones I know, we're still talking to each other and having conversations, staying in touch, and I think that's going to continue. So we're grateful that we've been able to make this all happen with you and that the college is frankly all over it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1526.0,1604.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOHN WHITE\n\nSo you mentioned our students, and one of the goals I think of the Mroz Institute at the College of Charleston is to provide a real sort of lesson in global leadership for students here at the school, as they go out into the world. What advice would you give them? What advice would you give our current students of international relations on how to pursue a career in international relations or international business, how they can contribute in the way that the members of the East West Institute contributed for so many years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1604.0,1639.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nSo one of the unifying factors at the board level at EWI was the passion for geopolitics, the challenges, the issues, how we might make a difference. So I think that's something they need to think about. How passionate are they about the place that they want to be. The second thing would be that they have to keep an open mind and on the one hand, be very self-aware as to what they are about themselves and what biases they have, but how to allow this notion of keeping an open mind relative to international relations, which can enable practical outcomes when you really take the whole thing from A to Z.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1639.0,1690.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nThen the third thing would be to make sure that they listen. This whole concept of listening to me is just absolutely important in terms of building relationships, building trust, which matters if you're going to go into that international sphere. Then maybe the fourth thought would be what we talked about earlier, relative to culture and not be nationalistic or so self-centered that you don't understand who the counterparty is and where they're coming from and what motivates them. Of course, learning the language of wherever you might go would be important of course. But I think understanding the culture is absolutely critical to dealing with people on the other side of the table.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1690.0,1739.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOHN WHITE\n\nSo here at the College of Charleston, we are one of, I think, a decreasing number of colleges that do have a foreign language requirement to graduate. Since you mentioned language and culture, how important is that for students who are not interested in international relations? You've had a very successful career, you've been involved in the international stage. How critical is it for undergraduate students looking to go out and have successful careers to learn and study other cultures and languages?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1739.0,1773.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nYeah. That's a good question. If they're not going to go down this track that we've been discussing, that's the question?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1773.0,1781.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOHN WHITE\n\nRight, right. So, one of, I think the draws of the College of Charleston for the East West Institute was how much importance we place on creating global citizens. The requirement for the foreign language and study of foreign cultures in the curriculum. So, I'm curious what your thoughts are as someone who spent so much time in this arena for say a student who thinks, well, I just want to be a business major, or I just want to be a chemistry major, to have a deeper understanding of cultures and languages around the world.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1781.0,1818.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nOh yeah. So let's look at it this way. We have lived for the last 30 years, 35 years, this notion of globalization and globalization has lifted billions of people out of poverty, on the one hand. The law of economics through globalization has taken countries and their economies from the bottom up to good places. It's brought the world maybe closer together. Right now, we're living as maybe a little bit of a kickback on that whole notion, which I think personally is very dangerous. But by way, the students and the language conversation, I think one of the things that any foreign language, Russian, Chinese, Spanish, French, pick one or some other one, by the way, does is open your mind to ... as you brought out earlier, to the culture piece. You learn about other people and how they function and what matters to them and why they're different.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1818.0,1887.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nYou can appreciate why they're different than you are. In my case, because we were Swiss and immigrated to the US, my parents always spoke French to us when I was a kid. So my French is like my English, and it opened doors in a huge way that I never expected, as I got older. So, as far as my grandchildren are concerned, the Spanish and the French are being shared with them. Is there one language that should dominate another? If I was a student, okay, what do I need to learn, French or Russian or German or Chinese or what? My response would be think about what you're passionate about. So if it's Germany or if it's Kazakhstan, or if it's Sudan, think about that language and how you might pick up on it. One of our program directors for years is now at the Bush China Center and he spoke Russian and Chinese. He lived in both places. His wife is Chinese. If he dialogues with the counterparties, he appreciates the language, the culture, the nuances. That is a huge asset, huge asset. So I think that's one way to answer the question.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1887.0,1987.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOHN WHITE\n\nThank you. So I have two more questions, and this is probably the big one. If you had to decide, in your mind what the Institute's most significant contribution to the world of diplomacy, what would that be?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=1987.0,2003.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nTrack two, track one and a half diplomacy into conversation. That needs to happen. It needs to continue. I think it does continue. There are many things that you and I, and everybody as layman don't know are happening behind closed doors and that our constructive dialogues and helping keep people together or bringing them together. We need to continue that no matter what.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=2003.0,2030.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOHN WHITE\n\nThe last question is, as we're trying to build out this history project to document the history and the legacy of the East West Institute, who are the people who we should be talking with? Who are the people who we should be interviewing?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=2030.0,2046.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nWell, I think you should. I think you should think about top down, bottom up. Top down would be the trustees who are willing to share, who prepared to share, and there are a number of them. But the key at the trustee level would be to make certain that you have a diversified group of trustees. So for example, within the US contingent, let's say there are 15, 18 of us. Within the foreign contingent, there are 15, 18 of us. Pick and choose from each, make sure that there's diversification in terms of the interviewees, so that we don't all say the same thing. From the bottom up, I would focus on some of the program directors. So for example, the gentleman I was talking about earlier, David Firestein who's at the Bush China Center. David's a great guy, very, very knowledgeable. He could talk about EWI in a certain way, just like Admiral Bill Owens, who runs the China military to military could present EWI in maybe a different way. But I think looking at the program directors would be important.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=2046.0,2137.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOHN WHITE\n\nThank you. Thank you very much. Any last second thoughts or anything that you would like to add to the interview before we conclude?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=2137.0,2143.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LAURENT ROUX\n\nI'm grateful that you gave me the opportunity to share a couple of thoughts. I hope that it's of some value in enabling students, and whoever listens to this in the future, understanding what EWI was about. But yeah, other than that, grateful for the opportunity to say something and share something.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=2143.0,2165.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823/transcript/41507/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOHN WHITE\n\nWell, thank you for your time. I'm going to stop recording now and we'll conclude the interview. We appreciate it very much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85204/file/173823#t=2165.0,2173.68"}]}]}]}