{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/kw57d2sd8p/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Oral History Interview with Dr. Patricia Williams-Dockery"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2025-05-29"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewer"]},"value":{"en":["Childress, DaNia, 1991-"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewee"]},"value":{"en":["Williams-Dockery, Patricia, 1970-"]}},{"label":{"en":["LCDL Collection"]},"value":{"en":["Director's Cut Oral History Project"]}},{"label":{"en":["Contributing Institution"]},"value":{"en":["Avery Research Center at the College of Charleston"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eDr. Patricia Williams-Dockery (formerly Lessane) was born in 1970 and raised in Chicago, Illinois. In this interview she discusses her time as the Executive Director of the Avery Research Center for African American History and Culture and her transition to Morgan State University.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Media Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral Histories"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Topical"]},"value":{"en":["Archives and education;African American leadership;Museums and community;Historically Black colleges and universities;"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Geographic"]},"value":{"en":["Charleston (S.C.)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Geographic County"]},"value":{"en":["Charleston County (S.C.)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date Digital"]},"value":{"en":["2025-05-29"]}},{"label":{"en":["Digitization Specifications"]},"value":{"en":["Mp4 deriviative audio and video created with Davinci Resolve. All archival preservation files are mp4s."]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type IMT"]},"value":{"en":["MovingImage"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright © College of Charleston Libraries.\u003c/p\u003e"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eDr. Patricia Williams-Dockery (formerly Lessane) was born in 1970 and raised in Chicago, Illinois. In this interview she discusses her time as the Executive Director of the Avery Research Center for African American History and Culture and her transition to Morgan State University.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright \u0026copy; College of Charleston Libraries.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/311/838/small/arc_1209_WilliamsDockeryPatricia.mp4_1780508239.jpg?1780508241","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - arc_1209_WilliamsDockeryPatricia.mp4"]},"duration":5538.325,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/311/838/small/arc_1209_WilliamsDockeryPatricia.mp4_1780508239.jpg?1780508241","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-cofc.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/311/838/original/arc_1209_WilliamsDockeryPatricia.mp4?1780508223","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":5538.325,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Patricia Williams-Dockery Interview Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nGood afternoon. Can you please tell me your full name, date of birth, and your place of birth?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=9.0,15.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nPatricia Williams Dockery, 2/22/70, Chicago, Illinois.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=15.0,21.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nThank you. And then how familiar were you with Charleston before you came down here? I'm trying to remember how long. It's been so long.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=21.0,37.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nWhen I applied for the job at the Avery Research Center, I had an appreciation for Charleston and its place in African American history. However, knowing the ins and outs of the city? I didn't know the politics, I didn't know the key players. And quite honestly, outside of Julie Dash's seminal work Daughters of the Dust, I really didn't know many scholars, artists or scholars, whose focus was on Black Charleston or Gullah Geechee culture. However, I did understand and know the place of Charleston in African-American history.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=37.0,79.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nAnd then I know you probably didn't come straight here from Chicago, even though you did work at the Chicago History Museum. Well, no, I'm saying it wrong.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=79.0,86.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nThe Field Museum?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=86.0,87.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nField Museum, sorry. Did you find a cultural shock? Being from up north or Midwest and coming to the South?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=87.0,96.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nComing to Charleston was.... Even though I didn't have roots here, it actually felt like coming home, because my parents were Southerners. They had moved north from Mississippi and Alabama during the Great Migration, and they were very much Southern folk. And because I was the youngest of my parents’ four children, I spent a lot of time around them and older people from the South, so speaking to people and really understanding the nomenclature and some of the culture of the South. You know, the sensibilities - Southern sensibilities - those came naturally to me. I went to undergrad in Nashville, Tennessee, at Fisk, so I feel like I'm a Southerner. I was raised “up South”, if you will. So I wasn't shocked by the Southern-ness of Charleston, but more so I would say the culture, the unique culture that is Charleston.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=96.0,159.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nAnd then what was your professional background before you came to Avery?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=159.0,165.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nMy professional background, I would say, is an amalgam of everything that I love. I love teaching and I love museums, and I love arts, and arts and culture. So I am an anthropologist by training, but my work is interdisciplinary in nature. So while I did my field work in Brazil on Kble, I have a deep background and love for the humanities. So much of my early scholarship is very interdisciplinary. And I was able to parlay that into having appointments at two schools in Chicago and simultaneously cutting my teeth in the museum field. First at the Field Museum, where I worked for about six years in the education department, and then for about three years at the Museum of Science and Industry, as a consultant doing public programs and audience engagement. So at the same time, I was an assistant professor at Roosevelt University right before I came to the College of Charleston.\n\nAnd quite honestly, when I thought about applying for this position, I felt like this is the best of both worlds. I can do museum and library stuff, but I could also be a teacher and an educator all in one place. And when I learned about the position, I felt like in many ways the gods had made a way for me because of Julie Dash's connection. I had just met her a year before, and brought her to Chicago for a program. And when I got the announcement about the position, I sent her an email. Now, I had only met her the one time, but here I am, I'm going to just email her and say, “Hey, there's this job in Charleston, I think I'm going to apply.” And so she wrote back and she said, “Oh, you know what? My dad and my uncles all went to the Avery Institute,” and I promise you in that moment, I knew I was going to get the job. I was like, “Okay, Julie has a connection - Daughters of the Dust - this is my jam. I'm going to get this job.” So you didn't even ask me about that, but","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=165.0,309.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nThat was going to be my follow up question, because in your cover letter that you wrote, you talked about “home”. So what does home mean to you, and how did you know you’d found a sense of home and community when you became director at the Avery?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=309.0,322.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nOh my God, you read my cover letter. That is awesome. Okay. So home for me is community, for sure. And it is a place where I could be my authentic self. And I came to my interview, I wrote the letter from the most authentic place that I was at that time, as a young professional and excited about potentially going to a place that had such rich culture and artifacts and people that I wanted to meet, or people that I had longed to meet that were connected: Jonathan Green, and of course I've mentioned Julie. And so having a place where I could really explore my intellectual and artistic curiosities, unabashedly, that's home for me - where I could do all the things that I love, which is engaging with people one-on-one, building relationships and alliances, being highbrow when you have to, but also being with everyday folks or the drylongso, if you will. So that's home for me. And definitely home is where there are Black folks. So that was important to come to a place where I could see people who look like me, and I could help people who look like me and my kids could see people who look like them, like us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=322.0,424.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nAnd then you mentioned your children. How were you able to manage your professional and personal obligations while director at the Avery?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=424.0,433.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nThe Avery team was my home. It wasn't just eight to five or eight to nine, if you will. It was weekends, you know? They availed themselves to me organically. I availed myself to them organically. And so we became family here at Avery. And so much of the milestones that I experienced - as a professional, as a mom, as a wife at one point - I experienced those things with the Avery team, and they showed up for me. We showed up for each other; when there were crises in one another's lives, we were there. And so my children grew up here at Avery. They would say, “Oh, why do we have to go back to Avery?” or “We're tired of going to Avery,” and I'd say, “But you meet all these wonderful people.” And they were after probably the first year they were over it, but they recognized that the staff here was their family as well.\n\nAnd so sometimes someone would pick my kids up from school or feed them or just keep them quiet. We had rites of passage programs for both of my children right here at Avery, and I've had colleagues and friends, too, bring their kids here, and my cousins, my brother.... This place definitely is, it’s still home for me. It is an important and special place. And I believe that who my children are in terms of their intellectual pursuits – one’s an artist, one’s a budding social sciences-activist type – I would say I shaped by the time that they spent at Avery, in addition to what my ex-husband and I poured into them. But definitely the folks here at Avery made a difference in who they are. They would get on them, you know, and help me rear 'em, for sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=433.0,575.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nAnd then what was the political and social climate during your administration? You had Mother Emanuel, then the racial uprisings; you had Walter Scott. How were you able to manage everything that's happening in the city?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=575.0,587.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nYeah, so we went through a lot of local and national and international turmoil upheaval during that almost 10 years. I will say that when I first got to Charleston, while Charleston is a Black city, I was struck by how, being on the Peninsula and going out to eat or going to a show, that Black folks weren't there, or if they were there, there were the handful of Black people that I knew because of my work or because someone from my church or my sorority or another professional person that I've met introduced me to. So I didn't see everyday Black folks at Magnolia or Fig or what have you. And that was early on, I would say, an important point in my political consciousness about what it means to be Black in Charleston and also what it means to be Black and have proximity to power, and to have privilege.\n\nAnd so I had to very early decide, okay, how are you going to use your proximity to privilege? And so understanding those racial dynamics really fueled how I worked at Avery, the types of projects we took on, the people we partnered with, the initiatives that we started. And so I say all that to say that when the crises like the shooting of Walter Scott, and of course the devastating tragedy at Mother Emanuel, we were out there on the front lines talking about what we already knew to be true, which was that the US was experiencing, I think - well, at that point I thought - it was the nadir in race relations. I stand corrected; I think we're experiencing the nadir now. But at that point, it felt very much like that is what was happening. And so it was heavy. But I always believe in speaking truth to power.\n\nAnd I do believe that with the privilege that I have and that I had in that position, it was incumbent upon me to call out the fact that those two tragedies that we just referred to were not isolated. They’re a part of a continued the long duree of Black struggles and also white supremacist violence against Black folks and state sanction as it relates to Walter Scott. So I was writing about it. I had a New York Times op-ed after Mother Emanuel. I was interviewed by countless news outlets. And interestingly enough, it wasn't a time where your administration would tap you on the shoulder and say, “You can't say that.” So if I believed it and I had evidence to back it up, I was going to say it. I think right now it's a very different time, if you will. So there were times when we were all pretty down, and I can say I could point to the election of the current president's first win.\n\nI was on sabbatical in Spain. And so my daughter and I, we had on our Hillary Clinton T-shirts, and we were all excited. The Spaniards had told us all the first two days, “Oh no, we are hearing that Trump is going to win.” And we were like, “Silly Spaniards. What do y'all know? Whatever.” And so we stayed up late, and ironically, there was a very conservative white woman whose kids went to school with my son at Porter Gaud. She and I - she was here in Charleston, I was in Spain, and I guess we were the only two people in Facebook land. So I had fallen asleep. I'm like, “Hey, what's going on with the election?” And she inboxes me and she tells me, she's like, “Sadly, Trump won,” and she can't believe it. And she's telling me about how as a conservative, she doesn't agree with this and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That always sticks out to me, because I think it speaks to Black and white life in Charleston. You never know who is an ally, and you also never know who isn't really your friend in some regards. But at that moment, with me being across the ocean and her being up and her being sort of disappointed and me being despondent, we bonded around that tragic win.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=587.0,919.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nAnd as you mentioned, how do you decipher who was an ally to the Avery, or who just wanted to profit off the name of the Avery? Or you think about some of the people who are more recent, you just try to profit off of Black pain, but don't necessarily care about Black people, so how were you able to decide who was really for the Avery, or who was good to work with?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=919.0,942.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nSo we had a lot of folks who wanted to partner, had all these great ideas, and very quickly in the conversations, it would often become very clear that this was one about them and their organization, their project, and they wanted to sprinkle a little Avery, or a little Black, on it. They wanted to have the benefits of being at this beautiful space, and also to of course, say tout that they were partnering with Avery. But oftentimes those partner partnership requests were shot down by us because we knew early on to use the vernacular what the deal was, right? There were some instances where there we did partner with a couple of organizations just because of the, I don't want to say the political nature, but we would get something, right? We got something out of it in terms of facetime with potential donors that did eventually translate into donors. So we had to be circumspect and really discerning about those types of events, because as Avery is always doing something amazing, the staff has always been dedicated, and it is possible for the staff to be programming 365 days out of the year if they could. And so it was important to protect them and also to protect the reputation and the legacy of the Avery Institute. So there was a lot of discernment, and then there was a lot of, okay, which of these things do we have to be a little politic about? And then we went from there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=942.0,1073.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nOkay. And did you face any barriers, not being from Charleston?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=1073.0,1079.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nVery early on, some of the Avery Institute Board members, they were so cute. They would tell me “We’re binyas, you’re a comeya,” and, “All these comeyas come and go,” and yada, yada, yada. And I think Marlene Seabrook O'Bryant, one of the ones early on, I think they were just trying to get me to cross the burning sands. And within, I would say, not even a month, we were thick as thieves. So I think folks really wanted to know.... I was a tabula rasa. They didn't know anything about me except my credentials. But I believe very early on they saw that, one, that I was a worker; these Baby Boomers - “If you work, honey...” - you know. And they also could tell that I was a southerner. I had Southern sensibilities, and they knew that I was respectful of older generations. I mean, as I said, my parents were Southerners.\n\nThey had me late in life, so I'm what they would call an “old folks’ child”. So I just love old folks. So that also was redeeming between the Avery Institute Board, retired President Emeritus Ted Stern, who would take me around and introduce me to people. There were so many folks who could have been barriers who, I mean, they just rolled the red carpet out to me, and they really wanted me to succeed. And I believe they wanted me to succeed because they knew that I was gracious enough to know when I didn't know something. And I would be honest about, “Oh, I don't know, but we will figure it out.” I didn't come here touting my pedigree; I came here interested in doing the work for Avery, and you know, I have my own Hippocratic oath for educators how doctors say, “Do no harm”? Mine is, “Do no harm, and leave it better than how you found it.” And so I think they sensed that I was going to be that director and that type of director, and they became family. So the barriers that I did encounter, I think I was able to disarm them for the most part.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=1079.0,1248.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nAnd then what was your vision for Avery when you first began?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=1248.0,1252.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nChild. My vision for Avery? I think it was.... I had all these ideas about different exhibits and programs without really spending enough time in the archives, really getting to know what we were strongest in, where the gaps were. And while that may not sound like a big deal, as within the first year or so, I realized that what I thought the archival collection was strongest and wasn't that, but how could I know? I hadn't worked here, I had just done my research to prepare me for the interview, and the interviews happened so fast. And so it really takes getting to a place and learning all about it. What had happened in the past, what worked, what didn't work, how much money did we have, not much what we needed, what would get us to the next level? And so all of that was informed by me listening, doing the work. And then within a year, we started strategic planning. Now, what I did know was that we were going to do a conference around Daughters of the Dust for the 20th anniversary. I knew that coming in, I didn't know how we were going to do it, but I knew we were going to do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=1252.0,1356.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nAnd then what was your process for gaining funds? For building renovations as well as maintaining the programs collections and exhibits that think during your administration, the building was almost for a while. How did you manage that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=1356.0,1371.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nYeah, so we had a number of - well, we had a fundraiser. It was in the first three years, I think, the fundraiser happened, or maybe it was in the first five years. I can't remember right now. But we had the first major fundraiser for Avery. We went after state contracts for the Department of Education, which helped us to develop the South Carolina Black History Bugle, but then the proceeds from that became my slush fund here at Avery. We partnered with the Avery Institute. I will say that, the Avery, we did have some fundraising training and board development for the Institute Board, and so they started incrementally giving more to the Research Center. Of course, I had a really close relationship with our development officers through the library. So Jenny Fowler and Denise Chicarelli, and early on, they understood the vision that I was crafting, and they could tell that I was a great storyteller – because, you know, fundraising is all about storytelling. You can't friend-build if you can't tell a compelling story.\n\nAnd so very early on, the provost, George Heinz sent me to case development training, and then I began going on visits with the two of them and shaping the cases that we gave to potential donors. So it was a mixture of a lot of different, there's always 10 things going in the hopper to try to figure out how to get some money in terms of the building. The College of Charleston - a lot of universities - don't have money set aside for deferred maintenance. However, it had money set aside for the Sottilly house and those historic places. And very early on, I began making the case: the Avery building is just as important, if not more so, than Sottilly house. We need to get in the pipeline for these funds.\n\nThankfully, we had a couple of provosts who understood what we wanted to do, and they worked with folks in the legislature; we -the dean of the libraries, first David Cohen and then John White, worked with us to work with folks in the legislature to get earmarks for the building. And it was a lot of talking to the, what are the historic, I think it's the BAR? You know, the hoity-toity folks who are all about historic homes. And I had to be politic a lot of times, but then when we would get pushback, then I'd have to be sister girl on them to get what we needed. And I'm thankful that between being politic and having some good allies in the form of the administration and in the form of older retired legislators, like of course the Honorable Lucille Whipper and folks, we were able to get the money that we needed to do one phase of the renovations at this amazing place.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=1371.0,1615.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nAnd then what role did the Avery Institute of Afro-American History and Culture play in your administration?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=1615.0,1622.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nThe Avery Institute Board, they became family to me too. I met with them regularly. They had ideas. We had ideas. The point really was for me to always inform them of what the Avery Research Center was doing, and also to engender goodwill in the form of funding from them to support the work. At the same time, it was a reciprocal relationship in the sense that the Institute has membership and they have programs that they want to put on and that they do put on. That really bolsters the legacy of the Avery Institute school. And as the director, it was incumbent upon me to support them, and it was “extra”, quote-unquote; I wouldn't call it “extra work”. It was part of my work, and I got to know the board members very well. I mean, they became family as well. And interestingly enough, I got a call from one of the former board members recently. Well, Walter G. Brown Junior III. And so, yeah, they probably early on were curious about who I was. And I think that within the first year, it was clear. I think Marlene or Ms. Whipper sent me their shrimp and grits recipe, like, that first Christmas, and I said, “Oh, I'm in now.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=1622.0,1732.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nAnd then, you mentioned some of the Averyites, but how would you describe the impact of the Avery Normal Institute and the role of the alumni in your work?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=1732.0,1744.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nWhen I think about the Avery Research Center, I have to just pay homage to the Avery Normal Institute because of its legacy of scholastic excellence and racial pride and community uplift, and just the embrace and love of learning and the arts and humanities and the legacy of Black  bibliophiles. And so that, I believe, informs what the Avery Research Center is in many ways. And I always wanted to lead in such a way and do programs that would reflect that important legacy, right? The Avery Research Center does that. It is all about excellence from the top to the bottom.\n\nIt is always teaching, whether it's through an exhibit or a public program or just by being in this physical space on Bull Street, it is teaching just by still being here. It's the enduring spirit of Avery, but also the enduring spirit of Black folks, right, of Black folks in Charleston. So I saw they were part and parcel of one another. Sometimes the staff would get upset when people would say, “Oh, here's Dr. Dockery of the Afro- of the Avery Institute for Afro-American....” And they'd say, “We told them it's the Avery Research Center!” And so then when I would say whatever I had to say, I would just say the Avery Research Center. I think it is hard - the two names, they both have “Avery” in it, but for me, it was important to never to forget the Avery Institute’s history as - I wouldn't say the North Star - but definitely as a guiding, as a guide post along the way. For sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=1744.0,1897.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nWell, you mentioned the North Star, and remember, we opened the exhibit in February about the North Stars of Avery? So I have a two part question: who are your professional and personal North Stars that help guide you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=1897.0,1911.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nOh my gosh. Well, Septima Clark for sure. I have on this little bangle that says, what would Septima do? And I definitely would say her for sure, several times a day, or at least a week, I'm convicted when I am feeling a certain way or saying something that I know is contrary to what Septima Clark would say or do which is hard in this political environment. And then I get even more convicted because I'm like, “Yeah, but they weren't even able to vote, you know, and they had the Klan right at their door!” so then I get even more convicted. So I would say definitely Septima Clark, but I also think about Brother Jim Campbell who just, just - I am tearing up, but just so amazing. Just a wealth of knowledge and experience and talk about being committed to the struggle. My God, talking to him, just listening to his stories and going through his collection and introducing other folks to him, just that was a life changing experience for sure. Of course, Dr. Myrtle Glascoe. Like, oh my God - just to have known her, who was this education giant - and then when I met her, she was an older woman, like subdued, but just so sharp. And she would convict you too, for sure. So I would say, of course, I never met Septima Clark, but I mean, just having been writing about her, gotten to know her, and then I'm going to just say really other personal folks. Of course, Lucille Whipper, who was just a stalwart. I mean, she had her hands in everything. She was a worker, but she was a mover and a shaker, and she would call and get on me. And then she got older. I remember one time she had, I don't know either, she overcommitted Avery to do something that she said she wasn't going to do or something. And so I called her and I said, well, “Ms. Whipper, we talked about this, and you said, ‘da-da-da', but then you told this person, ‘da-da-da'...” And she was like, “Oh, I did?” She was like, “You might be right.” And so then I thought, “Okay, she's not even going to remember this.” And then I saw her out maybe about, I don't know, a couple weeks later or a month later, and she said, “I didn't forget how you called and you got on me, Patricia, and you just told me what I should be doing.”\n\nI said, “I didn't do that, Ms. Whipper.” She said, “Well, you did kind of, but you didn't.” And I was like, “Oh my gosh. She did remember the conversation,” but she knew that it was all in love. But that was just so funny because normally I'm like, well, okay, Ms. Whipper, blah, blah, blah. But this time I was like, Ms. Whipper. They just were running around doing an end round. And so that was funny. And then my sweetheart, but let me just tell you my sweetheart, Ms. Cyndi McCottry Smith. Oh my God, when I tell you that so many times I would just be so down just about, I don't know, life or something, and Miss Cindy would come in and she'd have her little bag with her. She'd come, she'd bring us one of the little - I don't know where she got these are, because I don't even see 'em, these funny sized Coca-Colas. They're not... There's like a tiny in between the tiny can, and she'd have a little Coke, and then she'd have a candy bar, and then she'd have a tchotchke from her house, and she'd bring them and put 'em on our desk. And one time she gave me a little hula lady, and you sit it in the window when the light shows, it dances. Other times she gave me it a medallion, a Black history medallion. But she would come in and she would just be a ray of sunshine. When I tell you she would have a joke, she would always say, “Right thinking, right thinking, right feelings, right actions, right words, right actions and reactions.” She'd always say that. She was like, “Just right thinking, take care of your stinkin’ thinking and your feelings,” and would just turn it, turn it all the way around. And she gave me her sorority jacket, which I still have.\n\nAnd she was always positive. And I think of her, just.... And how committed she was to being an educator, how classy she was. She took me to bridge games with her. And let me tell you, those old ladies, they would beat me at bridge all the time. I mean, they would have no mercy on me. I would think they'd go easy on me. And she'd have all the little place settings that she had hand-written in her beautiful calligraphy and just...well, she'd have her little toe ring on. She was in her nineties then - toe ring on! So I just loved her so much. I'll just tell you this one story about her.\n\nSo I got a divorce when I was at Avery. And so one day I came in and I was talking to Mr. Franks, who used to work here, who's the curator. And I had told him, I was like, “Yeah, Mr. Franks, I think I want to remarry.” And, classic Mr. Franks, he had these little Malcolm X glasses on - and dashiki - and he said, “Now, why in the world would you ever want to do that?” I was like, “What’re you saying?”; he was married. Then I said, “I'm certain I'll remarry one day.” And in his classic way as I was walking out the door, he said, “Hope springs eternal.” And just as he said it, Ms. Cindy was coming in and I told her about him being a curmudgeon, and I said, “Well, you think I'll get remarried?” And she said, “You know, baby, you pray to the Lord and you ask him, and you are a sweet girl, I am sure the Lord will send you somebody good. Now, you ask for somebody good. Because when I divorced Smitty some years later, I said to the Lord, ‘Please send me somebody.’ And sure enough he did. And we got engaged,” - she still had her engagement rang on - she was in her nineties! And I said, “Oh, wow,” I said, “So, did you remarry him?” She said, “Oh, no, he died.” I said, “Really?” She said, “Oh, yeah. He died about 10, 15 years ago.” And I said, “Well, when did you meet him?” She said, “Oh, I was about 60, when we met and got engaged.” And I said, “Well, Ms. Cindy, you think I'm going to have to wait until 60 to get remarried?” She said, “Oh, no, baby, I don't think so. You start praying now, I don't think the Lord will make you wait ‘til you're 60.” But she was so cute, and it was just...I don't know. I just remember that. And, you know, she wasn't far off - I got married at 52. So, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=1911.0,2411.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nThank you. And then, how did you manage staff changes and reorganize Avery?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=2411.0,2419.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nWell, that was - you know, working on staffing is never easy when you don't have a lot of money. And at Avery, most of the budget, at least then, was the state budget - that is, went to payroll, which is the case at a lot of cultural institutions and or academic departments and universities. Most of the money goes to payroll. And so we had to have some tough, I had to have some tough conversations with myself. And the dean at that point had some tough conversations with me. You want to do all these things, how are you going to do it? And there were some folks who I had to let go early on. One was a part-timer. One was a person who was, for all intensive purposes, a great person, but there was a redundancy. And so that was tough. That was very tough. But it did help us. We weren't as tight because of that.\n\nAnd then also, it seemed to be a siloed environment early on, because the archivists were predominantly white and they were tenured or tenure track, and then everyone else was staff. And so I had to do some reorg to make sure that the skills of some of our staff were highlighted and to raise their profiles up. And I was able to do that - able to bring in some newer folk archivists later. We actually had the first public historian on campus. The history department never had a public historian. I posted for a public historian. So we had the first public historian on campus. So it took some tough conversations, even with elevating some folks, we had developmental conversations. And I think that is, that's one of the hardest parts of being a leader, especially a leader, when you have such close relationships with your staff. And also, most of the staff was older than me, too, but it was important for me to one model the behavior that I was asking them to. And they saw that, and I believe they saw that the developmental feedback was coming from a place of love and from a place that said, “I see you. I know what you're capable of, so let's just take it to the next level.” And that was tough. But I will say that by the time I left Avery, I mean, it was hard to leave. It really was. And because these are great people,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=2419.0,2645.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nWhat made you decide to leave the Avery?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=2645.0,2649.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nWell, I did get promoted to Associate Dean, but it's a unique job because I was also still Executive Director of the Avery Research Center. And for all intensive purposes, the PI of the Race and Social Justice Initiative, the dean was co-PI, but the day-to-day responsibilities happened over here. So it was doing three jobs, excuse me. And I had gotten tenured and promoted, and it was clear to me that I was not going to move any further in the university, and it was time for me to move on. And I had been there almost a decade. I'm definitely not one of these people who feels like I have to be in charge forever. And it was time, and I was having one kid who was graduating from high school, would be having another one in a few years, and you know, college - all of that. So it was just really time for me to take on a higher leadership role, and I got the opportunity to work for someone I admired in higher ed. So, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=2649.0,2735.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nCan you talk about the importance of HBCUs? I know you mentioned you're currently at Morgan State, and then you went to Fisk for undergraduate?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=2735.0,2742.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nYes. HBCUs are so important, today, yesterday, tomorrow. I would not be who I am without what I got at Fisk. It prepared me to go to the Ivy League and then to go to R1 institution for my PhD. And the main thing that, other than being able to really write because of what I learned at Fisk and to think critically about the world and to engage critically with the text, it gave me such confidence and it instilled in me what I already had an appreciation of, which is just excellence. Now where I get to be competitive ain't smarter than me, and you're not going to, you're do a program, public program better than me, or you're not going to do a publication better than me. So I believe that if students are getting the education that I got at Fisk, then they are prepared to compete. And so they're important.\n\nEveryone talks about jobs for tomorrow. Interestingly enough, when I was at Fisk, nobody ever talked to me about a job, ever. I don't remember one professor saying, “This is going to help you get a job.” Now, of course, my mother wanted me to get a job when I finished college. But what it did, it allowed me to, it prepared me to do all types of jobs. I left there and was doing public programs. When I was getting my Master's at Dartmouth, I did the first Mis take your daughter to work day program on the campus. I didn't learn that in a classroom. I learned it at Fisk somewhere.\n\nSo I don't really think about the jobs. Of course, everyone has to have some form of subsistence. If you don't work, you don't eat. However, what that looks like depends really on what you have going on upstairs, right? You can make a living doing multiple things if they bring you joy. And you can be a philosophy major and run a museum or run a writing center if you're a good writer. I mean, there are just lots of different things that you can do. So I believe that for me, HBCUs need to end are doing the work of instilling in Black, brown, and other students - international students, and of course, white students - that you're only limited by your imagination by what it is that you can see for yourself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=2742.0,2947.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nI want to go back, you mentioned Julie Dash, but in doing the symposium, can you talk about a little bit more the symposium you held, including Daughters of the Dust and then The Fire Every Time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=2947.0,2957.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nYes. Oh my gosh. So like I said, when I reached out to Julie when I was applying for the job, and I told her, I said, if I get this job, we're going to have this conference about for the 20th anniversary. And she was like, “Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.” And so I came in like, “We're going to do this.” And so the staff, they were kind of reticent, cause they hadn't done a conference before. And I hadn't done a conference before, but I was like, “I know you got to do a call for proposals. We can put it on the H net, we can put it on....” I knew that part, right? I didn't know how we were going to fund it, but I talked it up really well on campus and with the development officers, and we were going to be meeting with SunTrust and Wells Fargo.\n\nAnd when I tell you when that call for papers went out and the proposals started coming in, the staff, it was like they became different people. It was like, they were like, “Oh, we're really going to do this.” And I remember I wanted to have a tent. I was like, “We're going to have a tent in the parking lot, and it's going to go all the way.” I just had grand ideas. I was like, “We're going to have a bottle tree erected and dedicated and blah, blah....” They went with everything, but they kept saying, “Well, this conference is going to be in September or October. You know that's hurricane season.” I was like, “There won't be any rain. We're going to have a tent.” I just kept going on the tent. Man, about 45 days out. They were like, “Can you rethink the tent?” And I was like, “No, the tent is part of it. We have to.”\n\nLo and behold, about a month out, we didn't get the tent. And thank God we didn't get the tent because it was a monsoon. But even with the monsoon, I remember the morning of the first day, we were here bright and early, and I remember Mr. Franks - he could be a little stoic - he was, like, moonwalking. I mean, we were all just giddy with excitement. Like our colleagues from on campus, the Citadel, Charleston Southern folks, Claflin, South Carolina State - people came from hither and yonder. Folks who had been in the movie that I didn't even know had been in the movie - and of course, I'm blanking on some of their names - were here. It was so amazing. It was one of my most, it was one of my proudest professional moments when we had the bottle tree blessed, and we had our own Ialo Risha who was here doing it, and it was amazing.\n\nAnd then Julie was in residence with us for a whole month, and I got to know her and her family, and now she's a great friend and mentor to me. And I feel like that was a moment that the campus said, “Oh, Avery has arrived.” It was in the newspapers. We partnered with the Charleston County Library, the Trident Tech. It was, oh, and we showed the film in Hampton Park. Oh my God. We did that thing, and it was us. We did it collectively. So after that, we were like, “Oh, we got something here.” So we did one on gender and sexuality in the academy, which was great. And then that one on The Fire Every Time was, I mean, that one was amazing - to have Jim Campbell, to have Sir Hillary Buckles from Barbados to come. And I mean, it was, who else did we have? Did we have Williams? I can't remember. Oh, we had Kendi Ibram before he became Kendi Ibram. Wow, wow. Those two conferences - I mean, all three of them - were, they were just amazing. The juried art exhibitions that went along with 'em. I feel like we showed, not just the college, but we show the city and the state that the Avery Research Center, it's a destination for intellectual engagement, for research, for artistic engagement. It is a destination, and those are great times.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=2957.0,3270.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nAnd then what role does Avery have in supporting the Charleston residents of Charleston community?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=3270.0,3275.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nThe Avery Research Center continues to play an important role in the community. Not only does it pay homage to the past, but it also serves as a beacon that really highlights the experiences of Black folks today. And it is a testament that Black folks are still here in Charleston and the surrounding communities, and it bears witness - it continues to bear witness - to the Black experience in Charleston, the Lowcountry. And in that way, it's always going to be important. It's always going to be necessary, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=3275.0,3332.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nAnd then what led to the Race and Social Justice Initiative, the funding and the report that you did?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=3332.0,3341.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nRSJI, I will have to say it was another.... I just – I beam, when I think about the work that we were able to do through RSJI and that the Avery is still doing right, the initial gift from Google, we got, based upon work that Avery had been doing, they had been to some programs at Avery and knew about our work. And so our benefactors at Google - Leland Hester, I think - Hester approached us shortly after the shooting at Mother Emanuel. It's my understanding that a gift had been in the works, but the timing, of course, I don't want to say it was.... I, I'm trying to get the best word. The timing was appropriate, I guess, to give the gift after this tragedy took place, and it really allowed us to bolster the work that we were already doing. And so really, it was Dean John White, myself and my really good friend, the late Dr. Consuela Francis, who were just throwing ideas on a whiteboard. We were like, “Let's ask for this, this, and this, and this, and this and this, and let's see what they say.” And they came back and they were like, “You all could do whatever you all want with it, and here's the money.” And so early on, we knew that we wanted to bring in thought leaders who were really dealing grappling with race and racism and white supremacy through their work. And so we had an idea of some of the writers we wanted to bring. We knew we wanted to bring Brian Stevenson, Ta-Nehisi Coates, and Marian Wright Edelman. And so we kind of had planned those out, but we still had quite a bit of money. And excuse me, for me, it was important that we did not just do a whole bunch of public programs and have people to come and rah, rah, rah, and then that was it.\n\nIt was important that we do something that had a lasting impact, something that documented what was happening in Charleston, what had happened in Charleston, and what needed to happen. And so I was adamant we got to do a racial disparities report, and I was shocked that there had never been one, the city of Charleston, Charleston County, not one done. And so we really did something different and big. And it was pretty controversial, of course, because folks were like, “Oh, it's not that bad, or what, and did you read this part?” And blah, blah, blah. And we talked to a wide selection of folks in Charleston, and I mean, it was clear that the racial disparities at that point were directly tied to vestiges of slavery. And so it is up there with my top three most important professional accomplishments. And at the end, all the suggestions and recommendations I went through and I wrote all of those. I was like, “What are they going to say? Yes, they should do.” I think that was the part that might've been a little controversial, but hey, it was our report. The findings were what they were. They could trace them back. We used all public data.\n\nYeah, that was good stuff. That was great stuff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=3341.0,3613.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nAnd how did you create the South Carolina Bugle, and what was the importance in reaching children early to teach history? Because you also write children's books as well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=3613.0,3621.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nYes. Honestly, the idea for the South Carolina Black History Bugle came from a financial need. I was trying to figure out ways for us to raise money for the center, and I don't even know how I got the RFP for instructional materials, but as soon as I read it, I was like, oh my God, we can do this easily. And so I read it, read it again, reread it. And I came to work and I was like, we need to go after this money. And I remember so clearly Mr. Franks, Deborah Wright, and Georgette, and Savannah and Daron, they were like, okay. I was like, think of it. It could be Highlights, black History version.\n\nI don't think Daron and Savannah had read Highlights. I probably was the only one who had read Highlights at that point. I think Savannah knew what Highlights was. So they were like, “Okay, how do we do it?” I was like, “I don't know. It could be the South Carolina Black History Bugle.” And we could have, I just had started free writing some topics, and then of course, everyone fell in. But of course, we had to do the proposal. And I went to the dean and he was like, “Well, we've never done that before.” I was like, “Well, what's stopping us? And he said, well, you have to talk to procurement.” So I went to procurement, and they were like, “Well, we always put out RFPs. We've never submitted a bid.” And I was like, “Well, does anything prohibit us from doing it?” And I remember - her name was Wendy Williams - she was like, “Oh, yeah, no, but I doubt that you'll get it.” I said, “Watch me.”\n\nThe rest is history. We had an artist, a graphic artist. Let me just tell you, when the images came, I was like, giddy. You would've thought that I was a National Geographics Kids’ editor or something. I was so excited. I had my kids, they had to work, they had to do a crossword puzzle, and my daughter had to do a book review, and it was all hands on deck. But for me, I was like, why? We can impact Black children - all children, but definitely Black children, since Septima Clark always said she always wanted Black children to see themselves in the curriculum. And I was like, “We can make sure that these Black children see themselves in the curriculum with this South Carolina Black History Bugle.” And for them to come back and to fund us three times, oh my God. It was huge. It was great. And I still am waiting for the next issue of the Black History Bugle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=3621.0,3806.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nIt should be out by October, fingers crossed. \n\nSpeaker 3: Yay. Okay, awesome.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=3806.0,3815.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nAnd then you can talk about your work on the Septima play, and the year it came out?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=3815.0,3816.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nYes. So in 2022, Pure Theater - which is a regional theater here in Charleston - and the League of Women Voters approached me about writing a play about the life and work of Septima Clark. The folks at Pure knew that I had been a closet artist forever. And so of course, I jumped at the opportunity to write the play. I had written a play when I was in college, so in my mind, I was a dramaturg, but being tasked with writing a play about someone who was so important was really scary, exciting, thrilling, all at the same time. And so I did a lot of research. I was able to come back down to Charleston and spend some time in her collection. And the play went through the three or four different machinations, and I learned a lot from the folks at Pure. \n\nBut when I tell you that it was a life-changing experience to finally see it performed - like being in rehearsals and seeing the first set, which was just amazing - and that was a great experience, and it has taken on a life of its own. It debuted in March, 2023, and got great reviews. I was shocked, not because I didn't think the actors did well, but, you know? And then they toured it in 2024, and then they got Mellon - excuse me, NEA - funding, and had an East Coast tour. So it came up to where I work at Morgan State, and it went to Nashville, Tennessee. And just to be in the audience and to listen to people's questions and their experiences, that it's been an honor, it has been a total honor, a life changing honor, just to do that little part.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=3816.0,3957.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nAnd then how were you able to get the Craft and Crum family papers?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=3957.0,3961.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nOh, wow. Okay. So when I got to Avery, part of the Craft collection was here, but other parts of it came while I was here. For example, we got the first edition of their narrative through a collaboration with the Alphas, the local chapter of the Alphas. Actually, interestingly enough, a local philanthroper – philanthropist, not a philanthroper - John Rivers, who was on the friends of the library at the College. I don't know how he came upon now, I'm sorry. I don't know how he came upon the narrative being for sale, but he did, and he actually took me and we engaged with the Alphas and they secured it on our behalf. At the same time, we began to have a greater relationship with descendants of the craft. So there was the Craft and the Crum. So I believe we got the cane from the DeCosta side, and then Vicky Williams Davis, or Vicky Davis Williams and Julia Ellen. I'm getting everyone's last names. Vicky and nd Julia gave us some more of the Craft, I believe,  furniture - I believe; I'm sorry, I can't remember. But really it was through having continuous conversations with them, meeting with them.... Mrs. DeCosta, I met with, and was this Herbert or Frank? This must have been Frank DeCosta's wife. And her name was, oh gosh, I can't remember. But I know that prior to her passing away, oh my gosh, my memory on this is terrible. I'm sorry. I can't remember because the cane got here. DaNia, I can't remember.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=3961.0,4131.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1\n\nIt's okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=4131.0,4132.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nI'm sorry. I do not remember that one. I know the cane; I know Walter G. Brown had something to do with it too. So, did he facilitate? I'm sorry. I cannot remember, but I remember the cane was such a big deal because of who put the cane - the cane was in storage - and it was a big deal. I cannot remember.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=4132.0,4158.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1\n\nOkay. So, it's fine. We can still go through your papers, fill in the blanks. Did you face any challenges in collecting initiatives as the National Museum of African American History and the International African American Museum were being constructed?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=4158.0,4183.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nWhen I was at Avery, there had been considerable conversations about the new museum that was going to be built from when I got here. There was some consistent talk about it, but then there was sort of shouted and doubt that it would happen. Then there was an uptick, uptick, uptick, right? And early on, there was - I'm going to say there was tension around the museum coming, because in many ways, the administration on campus was very excited about it and talking about expending resources to support it, when the resources that they had been expending towards the Avery, I mean, it was kind of like, “You already have a museum here on campus.” So that is not to say that we did not want to see the museum come to fruition. There's plenty of Black history that needs to be told, and Avery can't do everything. That was clear to us.\n\nThere were challenges because in one of the earlier machinations for the museum, they wanted Avery to be the custodial home of any collections that they received, which was problematic because Avery was one. The HVAC, the HVAC system, and all of that climate control had not been updated. And also, we didn't have any space. We were bursting at the seams. So there was a disconnect and also a push to have the Research Center be on the hook for space and services that we just couldn't do. So that, I will be very honest that that was a source of tension. Even when they had – they meaning the first directors - had, I think they're called Abercrombie, the museum consultants, to come. They would meet with us, and they had me on several different focus groups, and there was a lot of picking our brains about concepts for the museum and yada, yada, yada.\n\nAnd the focus was always on, “Yes, and then Avery will house everything that the museum gets.” And I was like, “No, no, no, no. Avery can't do that.” So that was frustrating for me. After the museum got staff, Michael Boulware Moore, and then Marion Gill came and they had fleshed the plan out, it was easier for us to come together because it wasn't like, “Oh, yeah, we need y'all to do this, while we do this.”  So I think it took having - I'm going to honestly say having someone like Marion Gill on the staff, and then Brenda Tindal, but definitely Marion, to really shape a vision for the museum. And then it was clear that these two entities were not working in competition, but that there could be some collaboration. And I think that made my time, my remaining years easier, more palatable when the museum came up.\n\nAnd just as a side note, Marion Gill is the reason why I even went into museum work. She didn't even know that I was here, but she had gone to Fisk, and I had met her when I was an undergrad. She had come back to Fisk to finish her degree. She was about six years older than me. She was the first Black person I ever met who worked at a museum, and she was preppy. And so she had been just a museum legend by the time she came to Charleston. So I was excited that she was here, and that really encouraged me about what the museum could be.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=4183.0,4485.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nAnd then what would you have done if you had access to unlimited funding stream while at Avery?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=4485.0,4492.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nOh, if I had unlimited cash, I would've built an annex at the back of the building for storage and space for conservation and all of that. And for cataloging, I would've hired a cataloger and had more training for archivists, because we had partnered with the HistoryMakers and got some archivists and training here, and some archivists had fellowships. And of course, we have Aaisha here who had been a HistoryMaker archivist, but Avery could do that, right? So I would've done that. I would've gone after some collections that we just didn't have the money for, and I would've gotten the next door building and tricked it out, for sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=4492.0,4559.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nThen what were some of your greatest accomplishments and challenges?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=4559.0,4564.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1\n\nOh, I believe I honed my staff development skills here at Avery. So while nobody will see that, nobody, that's nothing that, that's not something that folks from the outside will see. I believe I became a great coach to my team at Avery. So that's one, and I, I've tried to bring that with me in my current job as well. Definitely being able to host those international conferences and everything that we did with the Race and Social Justice Initiative from the Disparities report, and then tangentially, the South Carolina Black History Bugle. Those pieces of work together, I think, demonstrate my vision for melding public history, museum work and academic programming together. I would say those, and being able to have Julie Dash to be a scholar in residence for a year or two, I can't remember. She was like our artist in residence, and we got an NEA to work on this documentary. And so all of those, and being here at Avery after a program was over, and we'd just be gabbing it up and laughing; we had a lot of laughter here at Avery. That, those, were just great times. And I would say the greatest challenges would be.... I would say the greatest challenges were, one, I was a mom - a wife, then a single mom - and I did have, like I said, great support. Of course, sometimes, you know, when you're working a lot, you’re like, “Should I have not been at that program, and been at home with my kids?” That was challenging, but I think all in all, they fared well. I fared well. It was a challenge keeping up with my scholarship, but I did, so I was always tired, I'm telling you. So when you're in a, because I was tenure-track, I am the only director who actually came into Avery tenure-track and who went the whole, did the whole, from soup to nuts and got promoted.\n\nOthers that were further along in their career - Marvin Dulaney came in with tenure. Dr. Chandler stepped down and went back to her department and got tenure and promotion. And so that was a challenge. I went my third year review  and then up for tenure and promotion. But I will say that I did skip the though, because I think I was supposed to go become a librarian three, and I skipped ahead. I was able to become a librarian for all the work that I did at Avery, and I was able to go on a years-long sabbatical. So with all of that, it was a challenge, but it did pay off with being able to earn tenure and promotion as a librarian, for it hadn't been done. So I was like, “Yeah, and none of this had been done either.” So, that was pretty cool.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=4564.0,4836.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nAnd is there an exhibit that stands out to you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=4836.0,4840.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nOh gosh. Of course the revamped permanent exhibit is just, I love going into the classroom. It is just beautiful. I mean, I love to see young people when they go in and they sit in the desks, and so I love that. I love that exhibit. Of course, the exhibit, there was an exhibit, well, the exhibits from the conferences, definitely The Fire Every Time or next time because it had a lot of Jim Campbell's posters in it. And the two exhibit from the Daughters of the Dust Conference, and Gender and Sexuality, Black Gender and Sexuality in the Academy, because we had some great artists to submit work in both of those exhibits.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=4840.0,4912.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nWhat do you think is an under-told aspect of the history of the Avery Research Center?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=4912.0,4922.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1\n\nI think I would say that oftentimes folks would mention to me, “Oh, Dr. Glascoe...” or “Dr. Dulaney...” and then I'm sure they say, “...and Dr. Lessane,” and blah, blah, blah. So there's a lot of focus on the directors of Avery and we all have our strengths and we all have the special thing that we did while we were at Avery. When I got to Avery, folks had a lot to say about the staff, and I'm so happy that I did not listen to what they had to say about the staff because that Avery staff, and I can tell just with my limited interaction with the staff now, but I interact with them on social media. I mean, there's just so much. I'm always reposting it. So my point is that the Avery staff is, I'm going to say, unsung, and they have been some of the most brilliant, the most innovative, the most dedicated staff that I've ever worked with.\n\nAnd they just bring fresh perspectives then and now what I see. And there's always going to be a director who has to be out there, but it's important. And it was always important for me to acknowledge my team. And so I would say from the archivists on down to the young people doing tours, and that Avery has some of the best public history staff in the game. So that's what I would say. And it is a gem, the Center is a gem, not just here in Charleston, but it's a gem for the College of Charleston. Okay, I'm sure some of them recognize it, but it really is a gem. It's an amazing place.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=4922.0,5082.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nAnd then what do you want visitors leave with after visiting Avery?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=5082.0,5091.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1\n\nI hope that visitors leave Avery feeling hopeful, feeling a sense of pride, feeling that their knowledge has been expanded about the Black experience, but also how the Black experience is American history and culture and how just amazing Black folks are. So that's what I would hope folks would leave here feeling.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=5091.0,5133.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nOkay. And before I ask my final question, is there anything else you would like to add about your time at Avery? Your professional career or personal?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=5133.0,5141.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nProfessional? \n\nSpeaker 2: Yes, professional. \n\nSpeaker 3: When I think about my time at the Avery Research Center, I wholly believe that who I am as higher ed, I guess we'd call it a senior leader at the university where I am, is shaped by my time at Avery. I learned so much. I grew so much. I learned to be self-reflective when I was at Avery. And I continue to be self-reflective in terms of my work and how I lead my team and my vision for the task before me. But I would not be able to do what it is that I do without having come to Avery. And honestly, because of the nature of the work, but also the nature of South Carolina, I think I could work anywhere, because you've got to juggle, you know, the nuances of being a Black intellectual - a Black public intellectual servant of the community - with the white establishment. And it was important for me not to compromise at all. So I don't compromise in my work up there. So, you know, that may or may not stymie how far I go up, but at least I can sleep at night. I'm happy, because I try to do the right thing and I try to work, I try to show up in excellence, and that's because of the people whose shoulders I'm standing on. So, I thank Avery for that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=5141.0,5282.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nAnd this is my final question: the Avery Research Center recently received funding from the Mellon Foundation and recognition of the 160th anniversary of the Avery Normal Institute and the 40th anniversary of the Avery Research Center, under the goal of recognizing the institution's liberatory legacy. In your opinion, how would you describe the liberatory legacy of Avery and how can we continue to tell the history of the Avery Normal Institute in the Lowcountry?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=5282.0,5311.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Patricia Williams-Dockery\n\nThe Avery Normal Institute is the epitome of liberatory education. It exemplifies the adage of lifting as we climb, because here we're highly educated, initially Black and white teachers and Black and white teachers. And then of course, when the Coxes come here, they're coming from Fisk, bringing that Black bibliophile, Black intellectual verve to Charleston. And this notion that Black students not only have the right to have the same type of education on par with their white counterparts, but that they could excel at it. That, not that we're just going to give them this, but we believe that they can excel and do great things. And so having that type of audacious educational foundation, I believe is reflective. When you talk to the Averyites that are still around, even the ones who went to Avery when it became a public school, they still had that. They were just so profoundly proud of what they got at Avery because they knew it was the best. And because those students got the best, what is preserved here at the Research Center is the best, the potential to be the best in the future.\n\nAnd that is, I'm going to say part and parcel of this long deray of Black liberation struggle is also this. It's not a struggle to be for recognition that we are geniuses, creative geniuses or intellectuals or innovators, but it is the long deray of bearing witness to the fact that we've done it and we continue to do it, and we will continue to do it. So I believe that is what the Research Center is, why it's necessary, what it's doing right now, and what the leaders and folks who come through here who are trained, even if they go other places, they are bearing witness to that awesome liberatory education. That is what those brothers who founded the school, what they were reaching for, I think the Research Center is doing them proud.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=5311.0,5517.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DaNia Childress\n\nThank you so much for your time, Dr. Dockery. Have a great day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=5517.0,5521.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838/transcript/94359/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 1\n\nOh, child. Thank you. Oh Lord, child, oh Lord. Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3724/collection_resources/172907/file/311838#t=5521.0,5527.5"}]}]}]}