{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/sj19k47174/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with James Creighton, November 15, 2022"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2022-11-15 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewer"]},"value":{"en":["Koellner, Sarah"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewee"]},"value":{"en":["Creighton, James"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eInterview with James (Jim) Creighton, who was the Chief Operating Officer of the East West Institute from 2011-2015. After the death of John Mroz, he assumed the role of CEO. From 2015-2017 Jim Creighton was a Distinguished Fellow at the Institute. During his time at EWI, Creighton transitioned into different leadership positions, worked on the budgeting, the Sinai Initiative and supported the efforts in growing the cybersecurity program and used his expertise in Afghanistan to strengthen EWI works in the Middle East. Jim Creighton’s interview offers insights into the leadership and communication strategies of EWI, the role that John Mroz played in the organization and thorough analysis of his communication and leadership style. In addition, Jim Creighton discusses global conflicts and relationships ranging from the Fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 up to the contemporary with a focus on Afghanistan, Egypt, Saudi-Arabia, China, and Japan. The interview closes with a discussion of Creighton’s forthcoming book “Coalition Leadership: Combined Team Uruzgan 2010-2011” and the role of foreign languages and cultural competencies for students interested in international relations. \u003c/p\u003e (abstract)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Contributing Institution"]},"value":{"en":["College of Charleston Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Media Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral history"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Personal or Corporate"]},"value":{"en":["EastWest Institute","European Union","Mroz, John Edwin","Putin, Vladimir Vladimirovich"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Topical"]},"value":{"en":["Civil service","Decision making","Diplomacy","Elections","Geopolitics","Institution building","International relations","Leadership","Organizational change","Public officers","Track two diplomacy"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Geographic"]},"value":{"en":["Afghanistan","Asia, Central","Europe, Central","Germany","Middle East","Pakistan","Russia"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type IMT"]},"value":{"en":["audio/m4a"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright © College of Charleston\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date Digital"]},"value":{"en":["2023-03-07"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eInterview with James (Jim) Creighton, who was the Chief Operating Officer of the East West Institute from 2011-2015. After the death of John Mroz, he assumed the role of CEO. From 2015-2017 Jim Creighton was a Distinguished Fellow at the Institute. During his time at EWI, Creighton transitioned into different leadership positions, worked on the budgeting, the Sinai Initiative and supported the efforts in growing the cybersecurity program and used his expertise in Afghanistan to strengthen EWI works in the Middle East. Jim Creighton\u0026rsquo;s interview offers insights into the leadership and communication strategies of EWI, the role that John Mroz played in the organization and thorough analysis of his communication and leadership style. In addition, Jim Creighton discusses global conflicts and relationships ranging from the Fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 up to the contemporary with a focus on Afghanistan, Egypt, Saudi-Arabia, China, and Japan. The interview closes with a discussion of Creighton\u0026rsquo;s forthcoming book \u0026ldquo;Coalition Leadership: Combined Team Uruzgan 2010-2011\u0026rdquo; and the role of foreign languages and cultural competencies for students interested in international relations.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright \u0026copy; College of Charleston\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Creighton_Jim_Nov2022.m4a"]},"duration":4211.63602,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-cofc.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/174/057/original/Creighton_Jim_Nov2022.m4a?1674673903","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mp3","duration":4211.63602,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Transcript of Interview with James Creighton, November 15, 2022 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nSo my name is Sarah Koellner. It's November 15th, 2022. And this oral interview will be conducted for the EWI Society Oral History Project. Could you please introduce yourself, stating your name, date of birth, place of birth, and your current occupation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1.0,15.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. I'm Jim Creighton. I was born on 11 September 1960, in Philadelphia. My current occupation is state legislator. And then I own two small businesses and one ski patrol.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=15.0,33.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nThank you. You're right now a [state legislator and] business owner. But, at one point, you were also working for the EWI. When did you first hear about the EastWest Institute?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=33.0,44.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nJune of 2011.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=44.0,46.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nCould you tell me in which context that was?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=46.0,49.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. I was retiring from the Army and looking for opportunities, and to see what I wanted to do next. So, I called a friend of mine from West Point and he had gotten a message from Darcy Anderson. And he said, \"Listen. Darcy Anderson's looking for the Chief Operating Officer at the EastWest Institute. Why don't you call him?\" So, a couple of hours later, and I called him and Darcy and I talked on the phone for about an hour, and that was about it. It was the first time I'd heard of the institute and I was excited about the opportunity, it met all my criteria, what I was looking to do. And so, I interviewed with John Mroz soon thereafter and then conducted 26 interviews with various board members, staff members, and friends of EWI, just to make sure that an old retired colonel wasn't going to change the culture and be a draconian and dictatorial leader. And, when they decided that probably wasn't going to be the case, then they hired me on. I started the first week in November of 2011.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=49.0,133.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nAnd that's a very different career. Right? How does, for example, your background in the military, how did it help you to transition into your new role at EWI? Or, were there also moments that hindered you a little bit?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=133.0,149.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. The organization was looking for structure and was looking for planning and systematic approach to operations. And that is what I'd been doing for 30 years. And so, that fit right in. From a leadership perspective, the principles, the character, the techniques that I used, all applied. A little bit different in a civilian context. And so, adapting those principles and habits that I learned over many years wasn't too hard. Treat people with respect and dignity, establish goals, hold people accountable to the goals that were established and agreed to, and then communicate, effectively and respectfully. And it all worked out pretty well, I think.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=149.0,217.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nYou said you were also drawn to EWI. Was there something really particular that interested you to interview?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=217.0,225.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. When I did my introspective look on what I wanted to do when I grew up, after 30 years in the Army, I wanted to be involved internationally. I wanted to help make the world a safer place. I wanted to interact at a high level in both government, and non-government. And, I wanted to use my time to make the world better. And that was the mission of EWI, so it wasn't hard to make that connection.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=225.0,267.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nThat's true. So, you already said from the mission, you really aligned. Also, you had a set of criteria, what you wanted to do next. Is there something about the EastWest Institute culture that you truly shaped, after you became Chief Operating Officer? \"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=267.0,285.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nWell, it's interesting that you say that, because you don't know what was there before. So, you don't know exactly what was shaped. But, from talking to people and from my experience, I think that we were much more disciplined. We were much more organized. Communication flow was constant and continuous. It was less scrambling around to get things done. The budgeting was much more accurate. It was also my biggest challenge, was making the budget meet, does input equal output? And so, that was a challenge. But, we knew where we were. It wasn't a surprise. My first week in the office, it was a surprise. It was a big surprise. And so, coming to grips with reality in terms of how much you brought in and how much you expended, was challenging. But it wasn't a surprise. We knew where we were and we were able to make conscious, smart decisions on how we structured ourselves to fall within our budget.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=285.0,368.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nI really find it interesting, because when I read about Mroz, most of the time, it's that he really thrived in \"chaos.\" And that your focus is more on structure and discipline.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=368.0,376.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nThat he really, what?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=376.0,377.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nThat he thrived in \"chaos,\" that he became a creative mastermind. So, I find it really interesting that there are these two different poles a little bit-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=377.0,386.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nWell, I mean, that's by design.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=386.0,388.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nYeah. I know. It has to be. Right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=388.0,390.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nThe concept of me coming in, from my understanding, was that chaos is okay, but if you're going to have an organization, it's got to be correct. And so, my job was to create that foundation, that basis of professionally controlled operations, that allowed John Mroz to operate in chaos without falling down.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=390.0,427.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nWhat are some of the projects that you worked on? You already said you were in charge of the budgeting, for example. Were there some other projects as well, where you could be a little bit more creative? Or were you most-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=427.0,442.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. So the Sanya Initiative, which is a meeting of retired army or retired US four stars and retired Chinese four stars, which was an exciting group of folks. That was really something I could sink my teeth into. We did a lot of work in Afghanistan, and based on my experience in Afghanistan, I was directly involved with that quite a bit. And then, the cybersecurity, I did some with that, but Karl Rauscher and Bruce McConnell did most of the work with that. And so, I was able to dive into the programmatic stuff where I needed to, and where I could, but my primary function was to keep the ship floating straight and narrow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=442.0,511.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nYou mentioned already that EWI had different expertise and that changed a little bit over time. Was there a unifying mission when you started working with EWI?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=511.0,521.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. Essentially, what you're looking for is the global and transient problems that can't be solved. And then, you bring in the EWI network, which was an amazing group of people, to solve those problems, to look for unique, innovative, imaginative solutions to those problems. And, to bring in through that network, the people that could implement those problems or those solutions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=521.0,555.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nCould you talk a little bit more about how the world looked at that point when you worked at EWI? You already mentioned, before that you were also involved in Afghanistan. What were some of the challenges when you were chief operating officer?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=555.0,570.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nGlobally?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=570.0,571.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nMm-hmm. Globally.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=571.0,573.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nChina and Russia weren't as much of a problem then, in 2011, 2012. Cybersecurity was seen as a major threat. Water, resource management and distribution was seen as a major threat, so we looked into that. We didn't have as many major programs in that regard, but that was something we were looking into. Obviously, Afghanistan and the Middle East were problematic, as they are today. And so, that's where we focused our effort.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=573.0,612.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nWhen we think about EWI, with whom did you work most closely with?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=612.0,617.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nJohn [Mroz].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=617.0,618.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nJohn. And he also probably made the biggest impression on you, when you worked [at EWI]?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=618.0,623.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=623.0,624.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nSo, during your talk yesterday, you mentioned that [John] Edwin Mroz was a good friend and also mentor. Right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=624.0,630.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=630.0,631.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nAnd, could you talk a little bit more about the two roles that he played in your life?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=631.0,637.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. He was a master of building relationships. He could quickly discern that kernel of commonality between people and then build upon that. He was good at remembering people's names, remembering contributions, both physical and mental, and then maintaining contact and constantly talking to people on a periodic basis to sustain that web of interconnection. And then, his ability to recall events and people associated with those events was amazing. And so, when you faced a problem, he could determine quickly, without, I mean, just through his own recall who was involved at that event, why they were involved in it, and how they could help in future situations. But, the big thing for me, was learning how to maintain contact and to energize people around a mission.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=637.0,739.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, from a friendship perspective, he and I hit it off pretty well and could communicate on a very personal level. And, that's not to say there wasn't friction. I mean, and you said it. He operates well in chaos, and I was there to eliminate chaos. And so, that inherently had a certain level of friction associated with it. But, we're both professionals and worked our way through it, so that wasn't an overwhelming issue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=739.0,774.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nI mean, good friendships, they need also friction.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=774.0,776.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=776.0,776.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nThat's maybe a very German perspective.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=776.0,778.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. Yeah","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=778.0,779.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nI would think so. Okay. Were there some situations that you still remember vividly in which the ability to really connect people and also really energize also colleagues to partake in projects that stand out to you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=779.0,797.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. I mean, the one that had the most energy was cybersecurity. It was not well understood. And, the threat was known among the expert, but not among most people. And so, being able to describe the threat and energize the international community around establishing standards, building mechanisms for cooperation, bringing together government, non-government organizations, trying to figure out what were the perspectives. So, Russia, China, Iran, United States, Europe, all have different perspectives of First Amendment rights of security, versus open communications, maximizing the power of the internet, while maintaining personal security and privacy. And how to balance those issues. That was one of the main things we were trying to wrestle with.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=797.0,876.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nEspecially also, when we think about privacy as a concept in Europe, its very different, also defined than in the US, for example, and-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=876.0,884.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nLook at China. Completely different.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=884.0,886.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nYes. Absolutely. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=886.0,891.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nAnd so, trying to establish global norms, that were accepted and understood by the different countries, it was one of those daunting challenges that we're still working on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=891.0,905.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nWould you say that EWI was a little bit ahead of its time, that it already addressed cybersecurity as one of the big topics?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=905.0,913.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. I think that EWI was. We did a lot of work with the cables and that 90% of the internet traffic goes through cables, not through satellites. And understanding that the nodes, or I think it was seven nodes or 11, very finite number of nodes, which all this information passes through, and then trying to secure those nodes, I think was something that we were able to identify and propose solutions and then watch implementation, over a very short period of time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=913.0,956.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nYou were talking already about the successes also of EWI. Were there some setbacks at the time that you were there, as Chief Operating Officer?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=956.0,969.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nProgrammatically, all of our programs kept moving forward to find better solutions. There were very few moments when you had a complete victory. It was all about continuous project, or progress toward a safer world. In my mind, the biggest setbacks were financial, and trying to get the budget to balance, and money expected and money didn't come in. Or, when new money came in, but it wasn't enough control to complete what we wanted to complete. And so, that was my biggest challenge in the four years that I was there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=969.0,1028.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nAnd, I would also assume after the death of Mroz, this is also probably an even bigger issue when it comes to funding?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1028.0,1034.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. Part of it is that whole programmatic thing. We had taken out an insurance policy that kicked in when he passed. And so, financially we were able to sustain for the two years between when he passed and when I left ... We were able to sustain the organization at a pretty much even keel. But without that insurance policy would've been difficult.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1034.0,1072.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nCould you talk a little bit more about the budgeting and funding strategies that you had? I think a lot was also that Mroz was a really energetic person and he could find also sponsors. Could you just tell us a little bit more about that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1072.0,1088.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. I mean, he was very energetic and he had an amazing network and of people that had contributed, and that helped us create a base. But we were also involved with GSN in Germany. We were involved with the UAE directly, with C.H. Tung in China. We had several smaller state departments and USAID impacts. So, we were constantly looking for state, private and corporate funding. Our relationship with Microsoft and other cyber organizations helped build our cyber program. And so, the China program is primarily funded by the Chinese. The Afghanistan program was primarily funded by state organizations, different funding from France, Belgium, Germany. The overall institute, we had some very generous donors and board members that helped out to make all that work. And so, it was a mosaic of different organizations and individuals, based upon their specific interests and how that applied to the programmatic activities of the institute.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1088.0,1188.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nWas it sometimes challenging, that there were so many players part of the budgeting? Or was it more something that was empowering, that you already had the support, also from some corporate members? Some state funding?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1188.0,1204.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nThere's nothing about the budgeting process that wasn't challenging.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1204.0,1209.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nI'm fascinated by it. That's why I'm asking.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1209.0,1212.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nBut each vice president had their own funding mechanism, so we relied on them heavily to fund their own programs through their own connections. And then, John and I focused on the overall institute.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1212.0,1229.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nSo, after 2014, after the death of Mroz, you assumed the role of interim CEO and the board at that time was adjusting and finding another future for the institute. How did it change your role in EWI?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1229.0,1248.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. The term \"interim CEO\" I was never officially told that. I was always the COO. And I was-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1248.0,1262.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nI apologize.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1262.0,1263.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nNo. No. No. I want to be very clear that I understand that I was never the interim CEO, although those are the duties that I performed. And, quite honestly, my mission was to sustain the operational construct of EWI, to sustain the funding base, and to make sure that the programs delivered as promised. And, I think we did that, by and large. And that was a long process. I mean, John went in the hospital of April of '13. He passed in August of 13, I believe. And then Cameron Munter come along until September of '15. And so, it was a long process.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1263.0,1329.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so, we conducted board meetings, we conducted executive committee meetings, we did our cybersecurity conferences, we did numerous Afghanistan meetings. And, our party-to-party and sign-out projects all went off as planned. So, I mean, for me, it was a challenging period of time, but also rewarding, because when Cameron Munter came on board, everything was in place. The funding was solid, but it required a lot of work. As with most NGOs, you've got to go out and earn your living. And so, we worked hard to sustain that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1329.0,1383.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nCould you talk a little bit more about the cybersecurity conference that you also organized in that time? And also the Afghanistan meetings?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1383.0,1391.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. I think it was at the New York security conference. We brought in up to 500 people from across industry and government. And, we had small meetings, we had large conference discussions, we had keynote speakers and we had smaller dinners and get togethers all topically situated around again, how to find these international norms for securing the internet. And, where were the regions of common of commonality? I think that the value that we provided that was different than most was, that we brought in Chinese, we brought in a strong Indian contingent. We had Moscow and a Russian contingent, obviously European and US. So, it was definitely major players from around the world. They came together to work on these issues.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1391.0,1467.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The Afghanistan meetings were held in Germany and in Kabul and India and Pakistan. And so, through our board members and contacts, through some of my contacts, we were able to push forward a program that looked to open Afghan markets. We called it \"Afghanistan Reconnected.\" And there were several of these initiatives that were implemented and improved cross-border trade between Pakistan and Afghanistan, that improved the relationship between India and Afghanistan. Not so much India and Pakistan. That was not in our job, although it was always there, because India was directly involved in both countries, and obviously didn't talk too much to Pakistan. But, it was interesting. We also had meetings with Iran and how Iran could help out with some of the problems and involved with the UN work and Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. And so, our ability to take the \"Afghan Reconnected Program\" and push the results of that into the international community at a larger level, I think was a valuable contribution at the time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1467.0,1561.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nAnd you already talked about one of the most valuable contributions as really bringing people in discourse with each other, that have been separated. Would you say there's also something else that is one of the biggest takeaways of the meetings, besides opening up the channels of communication which is, of course, a big one?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1561.0,1581.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nWell, like I said, there were several policy recommendations that we made that were implemented by both Pakistan and Afghanistan, with regard to container inspections, border processes, customs-border processes, and things that had been slowing up. What would happen is, you would get the produce coming from Afghanistan. It would get to the border, and over a 10-day period in 120-degree temperatures, it would all rot. And so, it was just causing a significant amount of problems. And we were able to make some recommendations, that were implemented at the national level.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1581.0,1627.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nMm-hmm. And, when you think also about the policy recommendations, you talked already about border policies. Are there some other spheres that you also had an impact? I was just thinking about the talk yesterday, when you also talked about education and there's sometimes funding from bigger organizations like the World Bank, but you can see that it's not really implemented, the goals, in a way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1627.0,1650.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. We didn't get involved in that, although there's an outfit called CELA [Central Eurasian Leadership Academy], who Joel Cowan is deeply involved with. And that was an EWI initiative that had been spun off in the '90s. And so, it was his own separate organization, but the genesis of it was from an EWI program in the Balkans. And then, that expanded into different regions. So, there are examples of that, of where EWI programs had been initiated. We steered away from large program operational involvement. So, we did not want to become a publishing house. We did not want to become the operational manager of a long-term project. Those types of things, we tried to give to other organizations that were more suited for that type of activity.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1650.0,1712.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nOkay. So, already pointing towards a change a little bit in leadership and also focus, were there some significant changes that you also pushed forward?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1712.0,1729.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nOne of the biggest challenges was trying to keep the board together. And so, several board members when John passed dropped. And so, we were looking for new board members, trying to replace the board members that left. The board had 42 members from 22 different countries.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1729.0,1755.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nThat's an incredibly big board.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1755.0,1755.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nIt's a big board, but the purpose of the board was to energize our network. And so, these are former heads of state, former secretaries of state and minister of state, some high net-worth individuals. A lot of cabinet secretary-type folks, four-star generals, folks that had been very successful, and had international context and contacts that were able to help us open doors in the Middle East and Afghanistan and in Europe and those places, we could definitely have contact. We had a very senior Russian party member, several very senior Chinese party members, former ambassadors in Japan, former ministers in India and Germany. And so, these folks ... very influential people in Pakistan. All of them came together and created this organization that could actually reach into policy makers and make a difference.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1755.0,1851.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nWere there some board members that you really wanted to bring on board that you were particularly interested in?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1851.0,1860.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nNot that I recall. I mean, I remember we were always looking for those people that could be part of our network and try to help make the world a better place.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1860.0,1872.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nOkay. When you say, \"to make the world a better place,\" what are some strategies to do that, that really stick out to you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1872.0,1883.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nWell, it stems from the genesis of the organization, which was the first projects were the Berlin Wall and John Mroz's interaction with the Soviet and the Soviet military. And, the ability to be a back channel between Gorbachev and Reagan, where that happened without a shot being fired. And then, the reunification of Germany, which happened without a shot being fired. Which is well before your time, but it's unimaginable. I was living in Germany at the time. And if you looked at maps of East Germany and West Germany, East Germany looked like skin with varicose veins, and East Germany looked like skin of a baby with no roads, no nothing. And, to bring those two organizations through, and obviously you're from the Mainz-Frankfurt area, and know the impact of that peaceful reunification, which is still ongoing today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1883.0,1964.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nIt's also half of my family actually grew up in the former GDR.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1964.0,1966.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nOh, there you go.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1966.0,1969.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\n It's also affecting my own family history. Mm. Can you talk a little bit about your time in Germany? That's something I would be interested in. And maybe our students also, who study [German history].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1969.0,1979.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. So, I arrived in Germany of April of 1983. I was a Second Lieutenant in Hamburg. I was picked up and went to a small base called Karstädt, which is in the British sector in northern Germany. And I was an artilleryman. We had two missions at the brigade level. One was to welcome the third US corps, about 50,000 people into Holland. And so, we would go from Bremen west to Holland and establish these bases where the rest of the 50,000 people would come in. And we'd set up food tents and latrines and power and all that kind of stuff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=1979.0,2032.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Our other mission was to rescue the people in Berlin; was to attack through East Germany and to serve as a rescuing force for people in Berlin. And we'd practice those on a regular basis. Our interaction with the German people was daily and constant. And it was, to me, the best thing that a 23-year-old could do, is spend his time trying to defend Western Europe. I also went back later on. I was married and my wife and I were in a Pershing missile battalion, and so we were in Schwäbisch Gmünd and Heilbronn. And when the international nuclear forces treaty was signed, then all those missiles went away. And so, we were involved in the operational aspect, but then also the withdrawal of those missiles out of the country, which was represented a huge step forward. The SS20s went away and the Pershings went away, and Europe was a safer place. And then, soon thereafter, the wall came down.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2032.0,2109.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nDo you remember the reaction also, of the people living in Germany when the Pershings, for example, came away? There was also a big protest. Right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2109.0,2116.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nWell, there was a protest when they brought in the Pershing IIs, which were much more capable than Pershing Is. And, yeah. I mean, those protests were a part of life. People exercising their right to protest. And, at the end of the day, I don't know whether they were right or wrong, but by bringing the Pershing IIs over, the Russians eliminated their capability to attack with those types of nuclear weapons against Europe. So, it was a safer place at the end of the day. I do remember that I was in Berlin the week after the Wall fell, and I have a piece of the Wall at home that I was able to retrieve. And the elation, the celebration, the mass exodus of Ladas and Trabis that came over, and you have this autobahn that doesn't have a speed limit. And I had a couple of Porsches and was able to take advantage of that. But then you have a Trabi that can't go over 40 miles an hour.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2116.0,2193.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nI was just thinking about that. I was thinking-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2193.0,2197.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nIt was having a horse and carriage on an unlimited freeway. So that was always adventuresome. But, the elation of the German people is what I remember.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2197.0,2209.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nGoing a little bit further back in the future. So, we talked about some of the different, also projects and foci that EWI engaged with. And you already said the geographical focus was a little bit more on the Middle East, also Asia-Pacific. Russia, probably with the cybersecurity program as well. Was there another region that EWI did not focus upon before and now became part of the spotlight? I know, for example, also, Germany and the East-West focus also shifted a little bit away.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2209.0,2246.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON \n\nYeah. I mean, we took a couple of trips to the Middle East, to Egypt. Specifically Egypt and Saudi Arabia, UAE. And the biggest focus there was on water, recognizing that the Nile River is a spectacular natural resource. But, by the time it drains into the Nile Delta, it's pretty much like the Colorado going into the Gulf of California. And part of that was, what do you do with the water? And if you're growing cotton, that's an extremely water intensive crop. And so, trying to avoid conflict in that area was one of the things that we were looking at.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2246.0,2305.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then, we didn't get involved in Iraq that much, which is something we may have been able to help out with. But, we felt that there was so much government involvement in there, that there wasn't a role for us exactly. And so, we did not do that. But building and sustaining the relationship with Saudi Arabia, we saw as important. Egypt as a major player in the region, the UAE as a ... We had a board member from the UAE, and Yousef Al Otaiba was very helpful in helping us understand the dynamics of the Israel relationship, the Iranian relationship. And so, we were doing a lot of learning and looking for opportunities to help out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2305.0,2358.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nAnd also during your talk yesterday, you mentioned that cultural competency is one of the big aspects that makes someone a really successful diplomat. And when we think back about Mroz you also said he's the epitome of a diplomat as well. What makes a good diplomat for you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2358.0,2381.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nSomeone that can stay focused on fixing problems. It's easy to get into a comfort zone where you're just moving forward without trying to attack difficult problems. And so, a good diplomat to me doesn't get complacent, is always looking for that new thing. You mentioned cultural competency. I think is an essential base competency to understand that in Afghanistan, your first two meetings, there's nothing of substance going to happen. Your third meeting, there's nothing of substance going to happen. You have to build that trust and relationship. In the United States, an example, and confirm this, if I'm wrong ... In the United States, if you're giving someone feedback, typically you start with what you did well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2381.0,2451.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nMm-hmm. I had to learn that too. More or less.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2451.0,2454.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nAnd then you say, \"But, you need to work on this.\" If you do that in Germany and you start with what you did well, then that's all that's heard. You have to address the issue at hand, up front, with that discussion. And so, if you're a diplomat and you don't understand that, then you won't communicate effectively. You have to understand the cultural nuances of how communication flows, how communication is received, how relationships are built. And then, to be able to adjust your behavior so that you can blend seamlessly into that culture. And that takes a lot of practice, nuance, training, understanding and a consciousness that it exists. I would say most Americans don't even know it exists, so they're oblivious of how they're perceived. And that inhibits their ability to be effective or to maximize their effectiveness, is the blinders on, that, \"I'm an American. Here's a solution. Let's move out. It's like, \"Okay. Well, you're done. Ain't going to happen.\" And so, I think that's an important aspect of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2454.0,2537.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nYou just said also that the own behavior needs to be addressed. Was there something in Afghanistan that was really difficult for you to adjust to, in the beginning?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2537.0,2556.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nThe biggest thing for me is pace. And it's a military, and I think it's an American trait, is impatience. \"Here's a schedule. Let's get it done.\" And, inshallah is a way of life. And so, I think it's a unique American trait of this constant pushing to get things done quickly and to move on to the next thing. And so, developing a patience with a slower pace, I think was the biggest thing I had to adjust.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2556.0,2597.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nWhen we think a little bit more about the time after you were CEO, in 2015 you also transitioned again and you became a Distinguished Fellow at EWI. Did you also had to adjust a little bit your own pace? Or what was-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2597.0,2612.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nWell, I moved to New Hampshire. And, the duties of the Distinguished Fellow were basically to help where possible. And so, there wasn't a daily deliverable. And that took some getting used to, because that's the first time in my life that I hadn't had something daily that I had to deliver. And so, that took several months to find the rhythm where I was providing the value that the institute wanted, and then being comfortable with the timeline associated with that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2612.0,2659.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so I did a lot of work with the China program in the Sonya initiative, and then a lot of work in Afghanistan, India. I participated in a Zoom discussion in Tehran. I couldn't go there because I was a US citizen, but it was interesting exploring the opportunity to work with Iran. And so, yeah. It was a big change because Bill Parker had been hired. He and I became pretty good friends and saw eye to eye on most things. And so, working closely with him and then the different vice presidents, I didn't do much at all with cyber. That wasn't my forte. So, I spent most of my time working with David Firestein in China, and then obviously the Afghanistan and Middle East programs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2659.0,2723.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nYou also said you moved to New Hampshire. How did that affect working with other colleagues of yours?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2723.0,2733.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nIt wasn't hard. I'd pick up a phone, I know the numbers, and I built up good relationships with all of them. So, they knew how to get in touch with me and we talked on a weekly basis, probably, on various different things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2733.0,2747.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nWas most of the communication done with the phone? Or-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2747.0,2752.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2752.0,2752.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nYeah. Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2752.0,2752.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nI came down to New York maybe twice, two or three times. And then in DC, not much at all. I went to Brussels several times because the Middle East-North Africa Afghanistan program was based out of Brussels. And, I also worked with Vladimir [Ivanov] quite a bit in Moscow. One of the things we were trying to do, and you asked about this ... My frustration was, we were never able to get a Russian equivalent of the Sanya [Initiative Dialogue]. We wanted to bring Russian four stars with US four stars. And we were very close to doing that a couple of times, but we were never able to quite make it work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2752.0,2800.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nWhat was one of the issues that you could not make it work? Was it someone, who was then backing down? Or?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2800.0,2812.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nWe had the US generals on board. We had NATO on board. The problem was finding the right people in Russia that felt comfortable enough to participate. We had funding, we had a location, we had ... Maria Cattaui was helping out with it quite a bit. General Breedlove and NATO was on board. We had the four stars in the United States, any one of a number. We dealt with a lot of former military four stars that, any one of a number of those would've gladly jumped in on that. But, it was the ability to get the Russians into an environment where they would feel comfortable. We were never able to make that happen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2812.0,2860.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nAnd that's also probably one of the other-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2860.0,2862.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nAnd General [Buzz] Moseley was the one that was spearheading that. We were able to do it with Japan, which was very interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2862.0,2871.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nYeah? Can you talk a little bit more about that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2871.0,2875.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. I mean, we had two meetings, one in Japan, one in Hawaii. And, the idea was that we were working closely with the Chinese, but now with the Japanese. And the Japanese are one of our closest allies. And so, our idea was to triangulate EWI as an intermediary between Japan and China, to help ease that relationship, which for many valid reasons is strained at best.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2875.0,2909.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nWhen you think back about EWI, what are you most proud of in respect to your involvement?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2909.0,2920.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nI think that we did a great job of developing our subordinates. All the people in EWI, I think. Not all, but the majority of them enjoyed working there, enjoyed what they were doing, thought they were making a difference. And, I thought we created a very healthy environment for folks to maximize their potential. And then, I really, thoroughly enjoyed working with the board members, and I'm still in contact with many of the board members. And I think that John Mroz had done an incredible job of bringing together people that really wanted to make a difference, and were willing to sacrifice their time and effort to make that happen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2920.0,2968.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nThat's also something, when I speak to the fellows, especially the ones in the '80s, they always mention that it was this really collaborative culture. And they've stayed in contact with everyone also working or that they met at that time as well. And I think it's really fascinating. Was there something that really helped to create this collaborative culture, especially with members? And also people working on different projects?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2968.0,2996.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nJohn knew how to do that. And I tried to learn from him and to do some of the things that he did, but he was a master at it. And he was able to provide global insights that people couldn't get anywhere else. And so, when John would call them, they would feel special that John took the time and effort and then was able to give them information that no one else had, or a perspective that was a unique perspective, that would help them better understand the global environment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=2996.0,3032.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nThat sounds good. So, you were a Distinguished Fellow from 2015 to 2017. When and why did you make a decision to move on from the institute? I know it might not have been a decision, because the institute also changed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3032.0,3050.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. I mean, the institute was going through ... They continued to have financial troubles, and I was not a fellow for free. And so, I think that they just decided they couldn't afford to have me. And so, I still worked with them on occasion, but not as an official Distinguished Fellow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3050.0,3077.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nWhat were the occasions that you worked with them? Was it more that your expertise was needed for-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3077.0,3083.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. I mean, people would call and ask me about who to contact and to who to link up with, and try to connect with different people. And so, it was not the major programmatic activity, but more informational.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3083.0,3102.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nWhen you look back at EWI, what do you think is the most significant contribution?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3102.0,3112.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nQuite honestly, I think it was the interaction in the board of directors, over and above everything else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3112.0,3123.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nSo, after 2017, how did your career progress after you left the institute? Was there something that the institute could also provide you to transition into a new phase of your life?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3123.0,3135.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. So I mean, through my connections at the institute, specifically at Glassmyre, I was able to start my leadership coaching at the School of Business in Dartmouth at Tuck. And then, that led to further experiential leadership programs that we run. And then working with the Wounded Warrior Project in terms of helping soldiers and sailors, marines that are struggling through post-traumatic stress, help them navigate their way through a very difficult time. And then, when I ran for the New Hampshire House of Representatives, I got a lot of advice and guidance from different members of EWI, that were able to help me in many, many different ways.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3135.0,3203.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nCould you talk a little bit more about your political career? So, when you were running, it's a very different career as well. Was there something that was particularly interesting to you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3203.0,3222.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. In essence, you're only given one life. And, how do you maximize your potential in that life? And, I had the time and resources to devote energy into making New Hampshire a better place to live, and to keeping some of the cultures and traditions of the grand state that, from my perspective, were endangered. And so, I enjoy going in and trying to fix problems in the state. There are health problems, there are water problems, and there are all sorts of problems, most of which, over half of which, are bipartisan, by nature. Over half the bills considered in the state of New Hampshire are passed on unanimous consent, which means that both parties have agreed that that bill is either a good thing or a bad thing. And, they pass almost immediately, within 30 seconds of every house session, literally. And so, the ability to work on those problems and come up with solutions that everyone agrees that that's the right thing to do, that's pretty powerful stuff. Now, there is also crazy stuff. I'm not saying that, but I'm saying that over 50%, the majority of what happens, is done on a completely bipartisan basis.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3222.0,3322.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nSo, it almost sounds like that the strategies and also the values of EWI, you use them also and focus on-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3322.0,3329.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nWell, yeah. I mean, reaching out to people, collaborating with people, bringing experts in, trying to find solutions that people can agree to. All that stuff that EWI did in spades.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3329.0,3345.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nI would like to, in the end, talk a little bit about your book after this. Is that okay?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3345.0,3350.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3350.0,3351.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nYeah. So, in 2023, you are going to publish Coalition Leadership: Combined Team Uruzgan. And could you tell me a little bit more about what the book is about?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3351.0,3364.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nThe book is essentially looking at, how do you lead in a multicultural, diverse environment? And, what it takes is stories and episodes and anecdotal evidence of how these leadership principles were applied in a complex environment, in a complex combat environment. And, what were the lessons about, how do you lead nine different nations, different languages, different training levels, different operational constructs, different national objectives and missions? And, how do you mold that team into a unified organization that is going toward one vision? And, I think that we had many lessons, some of them good and some of them bad. Some of them do this, others don't do that. And so, what I've tried to do is to make those visceral, so that you completely understand them and internalize them. A lot of leadership books look at the academic studies and the more book-learning. Other ones look at biographies and descriptions of leaders that did certain things. And what I try to do is combine both, that says, \"Hey! Here's a situation and here's lessons out of it that can hopefully make people better leaders in the future.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3364.0,3485.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nWhat are the arguments that you make in your book? What is good leadership? Or how does it look like? What were some of the success stories?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3485.0,3495.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nI think it starts with when God gave you two ears and one mouth. So, especially in a coalition environment, you should listen more than you should talk. That you got to recognize that the pace of operation's going to be much slower. That you're going to have not a single chain of command, but different competing organizations, with competing priorities. And that, you have to develop solid relationships, so that you can work your way through these problems together and not go away. And there were cases when people would say they would do something, they do some completely different. How do you work your way around that? Do you ignore it? Do you tap it head on? Do you address it indirectly? How do you work your way through those issues?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3495.0,3556.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nDo you have a compliment first and then your critique? Or do you critique right away?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3556.0,3560.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nIt depends. If it was a German, you tell them exactly what they did wrong. So, yeah. No. You're exactly right. If it's an Afghan, it's a little bit more circumspect. If it's an Australian, you tell them straight up. They don't want you to beat around the bush, they just want the facts, so that we can get up and move on. And so, I thought that during my time, there were nine different countries, 1,500 Australians, Singaporeans, Slovakians, French, Dutch, Kiwis. All these folks working together. And, it was a unified team. And, we worked together to get things done.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3560.0,3614.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And there were State Department people, there were USAID people, there were foreign affairs from Germany, from the Netherlands, from Australia. There were NGOs, the UN, the World Bank, the Red Cross. All these organizations, cats and dogs from everywhere, most of which didn't report to me. Most of which were off on their own tangents. But, unless we worked together, we weren't going to get anything done. And the International Election Committee. And so, being able to figure out how it is that you convince, cajole, enforce, whatever it took, to get these people to all work together. I think it was a powerful set of lessons learned. And that's what drove me to write the book.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3614.0,3675.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nBeing in coalition leadership and also writing about it is a very different set of work. Can you talk a little bit about the challenges that you encountered by writing your book? Were there some? Please share them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3675.0,3687.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. I mean, I talked to a lot of people and they said, \"Well, you've got to have an outline and then with that outline you go through your different phases of your book. And so, I did that for a while, probably two years. I had about 150 pages done and I sat down one time. I read it and it was garbage, it was terrible. And so, I basically said, \"Okay. It's not happening.\" And I talked to a guy that was a basketball player from Harvard, and he was a leadership coach with me up at Tuck. And we were in between students coming in and we just were talking. And he said, \"Listen,\" he said. \"You love telling the stories, so start with the stories.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3687.0,3743.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, what I ended up doing was, I took the major incidents and I wrote the story. And then, from those stories, I extracted the lessons and it just flowed out. And that took me a while. I mean, it's a process. And people always told me it's going to take a while, and a while is definitely a while. But, over the last couple years it's come together and I turned it into the copy editor on Friday. Today is Tuesday. And so, he says he's going start the next week or two, and he'll let me know when it's time to go through the next step.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3743.0,3789.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nCongratulations. Again, I think that's also one of the biggest hurdles in academia too, for example, turn your dissertation into a book. And that's exactly a similar strategy. You have to tell the story first and extract from it. And that really makes a good book. So, I'm really excited to see that it is coming out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3789.0,3806.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nOh, thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3806.0,3807.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nYeah. We already mentioned the academic side, and you also mentioned some students. What advice would you give to current students of international relations who would like to have a career-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3807.0,3821.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. There's two things. And the more I think about this, and this is really from interviewing dozens of interns and employees at EWI. And, what did I look for? And the challenge with international relations and political science is that it's not for young people, essentially. And you're not going to change the world at 20. You might start at 30, if you're the top lucky to get into whatever you're at. And so, for folks in those fields, absolutely try to save the world. It's the right thing to do. The world needs a lot of saving. It needs a lot of good people and the people in that field are genuine and brilliant.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3821.0,3880.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, they came to EWI by the droves and it was like, \"Okay. We're only going to hire one in 10. And then we're going to hire you to pay you $10 an hour.\" And that's just the way it was. And, did I feel good about that? No. But that's all I could afford. And so, there's two things that I would say. One, make yourself relevant. And there's two ways you do that. One is through language. And I screwed up. I took two years of Spanish, two years of Russian. Lived in Germany for seven years, lived in Korea for two years, lived in South America for a year, Afghanistan for two years. And I can order beer in almost any country in this world, but that's it. My language skills are not strong, and I wish that I had stuck to Spanish, and I wish I had learned one new language. And I think that to me, it would've made me much more effective. A friend of mine that speaks seven language fluently. He's unbelievable. I mean, he's been able to maximize that skill to his advantage. So, that's the first thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3880.0,3968.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The second thing is go abroad. Get to countries that need help, or even countries that don't need help, but where you can fit in. So, go to Germany, go to Yemen, go to India, go overseas. And, I'm talking primarily to the US audience, but I think it applies in Europe too, or anywhere. If you're trying to be a political scientist, or you're trying to be in international relations, you have to have that experience.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=3968.0,4009.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so, the younger people in EWI that were most effective were those that had experience overseas, that had been in the Peace Corps, that had been involved with the World Food Bank or the UN, or any one of 1,000 different organizations where you're gaining firsthand experience. It helps you understand the dramatic cultural differences around the world. It helps you figure out how to adapt to different environments. It gives you relevance that no one else will have. And, \"What sets you apart?\" \"Well, I was there, I did this.\" I think that those are two things that, in general, the people that had them were much more competitive. The people that didn't have them, regardless of how brilliant they were, weren't able to demonstrate that intuitive sensing that you get, that confidence that you get by being a year, two, three years in a foreign environment, making a difference, making things happen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=4009.0,4101.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nIt also makes a person way more resilient as well, and especially in the workforce.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=4101.0,4107.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nOh, you're absolutely right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=4107.0,4108.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nOkay. One last question that I would like to ask you. Can you suggest other people that we should talk to for this project?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=4108.0,4119.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nYeah. Some younger people I think would be fun. There's several people come to mind. Raymond Karam, Jeremy Hebert, Anneleen Roggeman.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=4119.0,4129.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nRoggeman. Mm-hmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=4129.0,4139.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nThose are three that are ... Anneleen is Dutch, Raymond is Lebanese, Jeremy's from Maryland. All three of them, young folks that really made an impact across the board.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=4139.0,4166.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nYeah. And that would also be great, I think, for our students to hear.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=4166.0,4180.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nRight. I think they could ... They're all in their thirties now, and so would have more contemporary than an old beat up man like me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=4180.0,4180.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nFor some students, thirties is also ancient already.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=4180.0,4182.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nNo. I got you. I got you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=4182.0,4184.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nOkay. Perfect. Besides those three, anyone else that comes to mind?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=4184.0,4199.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nNo. Let me think about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=4199.0,4200.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nMm-hmm. Perfect.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=4200.0,4201.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nI got you. Those are three that I really think would be very good to talk to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=4201.0,4207.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nOkay. Thank you so much for-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=4207.0,4208.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nAbsolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=4208.0,4209.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nGreat.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=4209.0,4211.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JAMES CREIGHTON\n\nThank you, Sarah. I appreciate it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=4211.0,4211.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057/transcript/43457/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SARAH KOELLNER\n\nYeah. Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85857/file/174057#t=4211.0,4211.63602"}]}]}]}