{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/vm42r3q35n/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Karen Linehan Mroz, January 31, 2022"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2022-01-31 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewer"]},"value":{"en":["Whalen, Emily"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewee"]},"value":{"en":["Mroz, Karen Linehan"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eInterview with Karen Linehan Mroz discussing the early founding of the EastWest Institute, from initial conversations between John Edwin Mroz and Ira Wallach, to the first classes of Resident Fellows from Eastern Europe at the height of the Cold War. Karen explains some of John's approaches to international relations and Track II diplomacy.\u003c/p\u003e (abstract)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Contributing Institution"]},"value":{"en":["College of Charleston Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Media Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral History"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Personal or Corporate"]},"value":{"en":["College of Charleston","EastWest Institute","Mroz, John Edwin"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Topical"]},"value":{"en":["Education","Internationalism","Leadership","Organizational change","Track two diplomacy"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type IMT"]},"value":{"en":["audio/m4a"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright © College of Charleston\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date Digital"]},"value":{"en":["2022-03-03"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eInterview with Karen Linehan Mroz discussing the early founding of the EastWest Institute, from initial conversations between John Edwin Mroz and Ira Wallach, to the first classes of Resident Fellows from Eastern Europe at the height of the Cold War. Karen explains some of John's approaches to international relations and Track II diplomacy.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright \u0026copy; College of Charleston\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Mroz_Karen_Jan2022.m4a"]},"duration":1648.542,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-cofc.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/154/307/original/Mroz_Karen_Jan2022.m4a?1646307724","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mp3","duration":1648.542,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Transcript of Interview with Karen Linehan Mroz, January 2022 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Emily Whalen\n\nOkay. So why don't you go ahead and start by telling me your name and sort of your role at EWI?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=0.0,9.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nOkay. So I am Karen Linehan Mroz, and my role at EWI is one of many hats. I was married to John Edwin Mroz, the co-founder and CEO of EWI. I adopted through him the nickname Matuskha or mother of the Institute, which I would like to abandon at some point, but was there when the concept came up and when it was endorsed and the funding proposed and accepted, in Amman, Jordan in 1978, '79, somewhere in that area, and have been there through the closing of the Institute, the establishment of the Mroz Institute of the College of Charleston.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=9.0,58.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Emily Whalen\n\nGreat. Well, so tell me a little bit about those moments that you just mentioned, where the concept of the Institute arose and the funding became accepted and sort of the seed of the Institute came to fruition.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=58.0,72.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nOkay. I'll try to give you the short version, although I don't know if I can. So John was working at an organization called the International Peace Academy. He was the Middle East director or director of Middle East programs. It's a fascinating organization that still exists today to train soldiers on how to become UN peacekeeping force commanders, because you're taught at Sandhurst or West Point or wherever it is, Landesvert Academy in Vienna. You're taught to be a soldier operating in an offensive or defensive mechanism and war, not how to wear a blue cap and maintain peace. So donors, supporters of IPA were Miriam and Ira Wallach and we had the great fortune to travel with them throughout the Middle East and other areas, but primarily through the Middle East and the Gulf region when, particularly the Gulf when very few people were really going in that area.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=72.0,130.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nSo we had a chance to explore. Oddly enough, we spent a fair amount of time in Amman, Jordan because John was doing a lot of back interviews with key players in the Middle East, including King Hussein. He had just finished the final drafts and was getting the galleys for the book Beyond Security, Private Perceptions Among Arabs and Israelis. We were having a great trip, a rather humorous trip because the four of us were proofing galleys and John and Ira, who had a wonderful relationship, called a time out and said, “You girls go off and do what you want to do and we will go for a men's conversation about the world,” or they'd do their lunch around what they were doing in meeting or prepping for the meetings with King Hussein.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=130.0,180.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nDuring the course of the meeting at a Chinese restaurant in Amman Jordan, which still operates today, Ira turned to John and said, Ira was a man of great foresight and he wanted to contribute to things on a global perspective that would impact how we moved forward to make it a better place for his family, for example. So he turned to John and he said, \"If I gave you $5 million, a million a year for five years, what would you do, create, and what would it look like? And how would it make a difference for a better world for my grandchildren?\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=180.0,223.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nJohn, who never seemed to miss a beat, turned to him and said, \"Well, I would create an organization that focused on bringing together X and Y. The reason for that is…,” and he laid forth the principles, the purpose and the concepts and the essence of what became the Institute for International. It wasn't East West Institute when we started, it was Institute for International-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=223.0,252.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Emily Whalen\n\nInstitute for East West Security Studies, I think.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=252.0,255.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nThank you. Thank you. Are you sure you weren't there, Emily?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=255.0,258.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Emily Whalen\n\nI've written it a number of times!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=258.0,260.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nWell, I've lived it, so I should know it, but it later was shortened for a variety of reasons to East West Institute. I remember John coming back and saying to me, \"You're not going to believe what luncheon that was.\" It certainly was when, as he said, “It wasn’t on the menu, but boy, I think my whole life is about to change.” It ended up that we came back and Ira and John continued their conversations and Ira had an incredible assistant, Irene Kenny, and Ira was canoodling with his family. His kids were young adult age and his wonderful wife, Miriam.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=260.0,301.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nThey, unbeknownst to John, had decided to fund exactly as Ira proposed. I remember John got a phone call from Irene saying, I think in response to a cal,l saying, \"Come over and see Ira.\" He said, \"I'm swamped.\" He had some crisis going on at IPA, and Irene picked the phone and said, \"I'm telling you as your mother would tell you, get over here right now.\" So John got over right now and Ira announced to him that he would in fact fund a million a year for five years on the basis of X, Y, and Z, and what they were talking about. That was the origins of the Institute.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=301.0,340.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Emily Whalen\n\nAmazing. What always strikes me about this story is how quickly John was able to respond with this sort of fully formed idea for what the Institute eventually became. Had he ever talked about something like this with you beforehand? Or was it something that you knew that he was thinking about?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=340.0,358.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nYes and no. No in the sense had he put forth and said, “Someday when I grow up, this is what I want to create.” No. Had we talked about the what ifs of what was needed? Yes. Oddly enough, John and I always found ourselves in two different camps. John was in– later, which I got to understand even more from his perspective. I don't know if he always understood it from mine– but I was on the streets, meeting people and seeing the problems and the issues. I was looking for concrete solutions for children and women. That's what I ended up spending my life doing in the Middle East and the work that I did there. But for John, he dealt with the forces that be, and they were always somewhere up in the 60,000 area, not down on the tarmac where I was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=358.0,408.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nThat's what I think was the success of our partnership in many cases. So we talked about the what ifs of if this could happen or that could happen. But one thing about John that I think is interesting, especially because students may look at this at some point or those who are saying, how can I do what he did? John was a great listener and he was one who, like a doctor would listen for symptoms. So he is always in tune with the symptoms, and he was a great voracious note taker. So when he would look back over his notes ... So his mind always was focused on symptoms, diagnosis, prescription. As in the case with medical and sometimes we'll have conference stations today about silos and the various medical focuses are in silos.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=408.0,464.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nJohn never operated in a silo. There were always bridges from his silos, one to the next. So I think he was acutely thinking about the diagnosis and also going to that part of world, being in that the world. His first love beyond anything was Russia and Soviet studies, Eastern Europe. So Middle East was in my blood somehow, was his study, regional study, regional application. He would always be with his head, what's the implications for this, from the Soviet perspective and the American policy in European.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=464.0,504.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nSo he always seemed to have those touching points where they were constantly on his mind. He would then etch a sketch mentally the connectivity. From that he could put a plan together. So did he have the East West Institute formulated to the extent that he said it to IRA? No, but it didn't surprise me. I remember laughing and saying, “Did you write down what you proposed? Do you remember?” Because that was just something that we all do, sort of like, I wish I had recorded so I could say it again.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=504.0,540.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Emily Whalen\n\nYeah, of course. So once the Institute sort of got its footing in New York, I know that you were really deeply involved in building the community in the first few years before you sort of focused on your own career and on the kids. Can you tell me a little bit about what the atmosphere was like at the Institute in those very, very early years with the very first classes of resident fellows, first meetings and things like that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=540.0,563.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nWell, what a lot of people may not know is that we were very heavily focused at the time on certain NATO– the Warsaw Pact was a great degree of what was taking place and the various talks and issues and situations that were around. So the primary fellows were from the participants to that. The secondary was the regional study. Our very first group fellows included a Middle East fellows. We had a Jordanian, Israeli, Palestinian, Lebanese, I think, and an Egyptian if I recall correctly. That made sense emerging from his work in Beyond Security. As much as he was very much a subject expert in that area, he was drawn always back, always back [to Soviet Studies]. So it never surprised me that we never really had a regional focus like that in terms of fellows again.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=563.0,628.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nOne of the things that I thought was really brilliant about the way that he approached this was he felt that to get to the influencer and potential influencer of a leader was far more important than the leader itself. Maybe, rather than foreign ministers, they were all part of it, but they weren't part of the day to day activity. Bringing these people together and creating a network and a family, because for John, family took on two parts. There was the professional family, but there was the family of the professionals. They were always included, whether it was speakers coming or whether it was the actual fellows or whoever it was that came on board from outside the states.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=628.0,675.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nSo we had the, who would that be? We had the great complexities of, well, we hadn't had the Russian signed on at that time or the Soviets at the time. So we had some extremely brave individuals from Eastern Europe at all levels of the Institute had signed on, fellows in particular. We had fellows from Poland and we had fellows from Hungary. We didn't have the umbrella and the blessing. So this was really brave allowing them to come, et cetera. So it was all of the logistics of bringing them over, all the challenges of coming in a room.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=675.0,715.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nI remember one conversation. He came home one night. He said, \"Everybody wants a window. Everybody thinks they're entitled. We don't have windows. And now if one person gets a window, apparently that has a big negative impact on [things].\" It's the silly stuff. It's the day to day stuff that you never anticipate. But once they all came together, it was incredible. One of the big original ... this is kind of behind the scenes stuff, but we had a house up in Western Massachusetts. In that community was a community rich of individuals whose heritage was reflected in the fellows we had.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=715.0,752.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nSo we brought all the fellows to this Western [Mass community]. We had families adopt them. So if you were of Polish heritage, you could have the Polish fellow. Czech, you could have Czech, et cetera, et cetera. We had them for three days. We had activities. We had discussions. We brought people in for the day. That was the kind of relaxed atmosphere that paid off in bundles and bundles. How did that pay off? Well, there were times when there was a conflict like what's going on in Ukraine and Russia right now, where we knew the outside players. At one time, everybody sitting around the SALT talks, NATO, the MiRV, they were all Institute alum. So it’s like the delegates lounge at the UN, not to offend anyone from the UN, but that’s where those things happen and we could call upon them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=752.0,807.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nIf John were here right now, he’d be calling upon all those resources to come together and meet in some odd place, in a relaxed environment to talk and just start a dialogue and start a process. I think that starting a dialogue, again, going back to that medical [metaphor], non silo. They're all in silos and here's John creating bridges across the silos, running back and forth and back and forth, which would make a great political cartoon if I could draw it. But the idea is that he always had that prescribed sense, the diagnostic prescription in mind, and in a relaxed atmosphere that I think contributed. So I don't know if that fully answers your question, but those are the early days of starting all of that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=807.0,852.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Emily Whalen\n\nYeah, it does. This is something in an interview with one of the former resident fellows, he said “There was no cold war atmosphere really at the Institute.” It was sort of the place that you could go where you could interact with people as individuals rather than as sort of avatars of east or west, and that kind of creating that kind of family atmosphere, like you said. I know that cuts both ways, whereas sort of the Institute was a family, but then your family was also deeply involved in the Institute. I remember you telling me about how you hosted dinner party after dinner party in those early years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=852.0,890.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nYeah. We didn't have any of funding. I mean, we had lots of funding. That amount of money that Ira gave was his extraordinary and then grants followed, et cetera. But we'd blow the whole budget for the entire year in one formal dinner at a restaurant or just an informal dinner. So John came home, ever his confidence in his wife. \"You can do this. I bet you could cook for ...\" and we would do these informal dinner parties for 18 at a tiny apartment. I'm not talking about a professor from here and there that was casual and fun and easy. I'm talking about foreign ministers. I'm talking about Peter Jennings from ABC. Well, we can do that. Brzezinski– where I had Polish vodka to make sure that I didn't offend the man. I'm reading Martha Stewart and it's just crazy stuff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=890.0,937.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nHow we did it, I don't know. But I think one thing that's really important is, I think people think young students, anyone looking at John knew how to do this all. No. We had a book on etiquette in one hand and a book policy on the other hand, and how do you forge through this? Sometimes it was faux pas and sometimes it wasn't, but you learned tremendously through all of this. It brings to mind the very first board meeting we had outside the United States. It was in Romania. Again, remember, we don't have Soviet backing. People are allowing us to come and Ceaușescu's in power. So we go over, and I've told this story many times, but it's worth for posterity. We go over and we are told, Minister Andrej at the time who was wonderful to us and opened doors.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=937.0,994.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nWe had this conference site off in Transylvania or someplace that was where we convened. As things got more interesting, we would get word from Mr. Andrej, that something was going on and that they would like the youth of Romania to come and to observe this. Well, the youth was Ceaușescu's son who came and this was “representative of Romanian youth.” We knew it wasn't, but you couldn't say anything. They had loaned us one. They only had two people in the ministry who truly spoke English to be able to help us out. We had this young guy and he kept saying, \"How do Americans do this? How do you stay up all night and do it the next day? Never seen anything like it.\" We were kidding him saying toothpicks. You know, that's what we used to keep our eyes open.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=994.0,1047.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nHe bought the whole thing, hook, line, and sinker. Then later became the president of the parliament in Romania. So always be careful to those who work with you at that level. You never know where they're going. But as this is going on, we're finding out that there's more and more influence. So we're packing up to leave. It's been a very successful conference as the awareness of what was going on grew within the capital, more security, more involvement from other ministry people. We're told by Minister Andrej that we are going to go to the capital. We have fairly significant high level board members, and they're not happy about the fact that we're going in the opposite direction of the airport, to which we are told, “No problem. The airport’s been shut down, waiting for this.” The bottom line was, we were going to meet Ceaușescu.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=1047.0,1102.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nSo they kept bringing us from one house. We'd clear that house, they'd bring us to another, now a palace. Then we would go to meet him. Of course you never knew with Ira because he had the most wonderful ... Ira could never offend anybody. Everybody loved Ira. As we go in, we get all get those little sugar coated Easter candies and Godiva chocolates are sitting on the table for Ceaușescu. And there's a taster, and the taster eats the chocolates. We're all watching the tasters to say, “Hm, good luck, good life, good health and everything passes.” So he gives it to President Ceaușescu and he goes on and on, and it's translated for us. As [Ceaușescu] gets up to rise, Ira says, \"President Ceaușescu.\" I thought John would melt under the table, because once the president rises, you don't speak.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=1102.0,1150.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nHe had something to say about, we thank you for your hospitality. Thankfully did not go to the human rights challenges that one might fear he did. All the planes took off. Everybody made their flights and everything was fine, but we had extraordinary experiences like that. That's why I say half the time we were learning, it was a lot of OJT. A lot of on-the-job training, but John had that unique ability. A very good friend of ours, David Allen, just said to me the other day, which I thought was brilliant. John had an incredible capacity to know who to meet and who not to meet and how to engage both of those and to engage within one community or another in a way that few people ever do. I thought, yeah, that's a wonderful testimony to John because that's what he did so well. We could go on for hours, which we won't, but the background stories, the bloopers of EWI would make a great movie in and of its self.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=1150.0,1213.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Emily Whalen\n\nI'm sure they would.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=1213.0,1214.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nI'm not telling all of them, so they will go to my grave with me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=1214.0,1220.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Emily Whalen\n\nWell, so that first meeting was in 1983, which is only a couple years after the founding. I think one of the things that's extraordinary about the Institute, and that maybe you can speak to for our last few minutes here, is that, as you said, you started out really not trying to meet the decision makers. You're trying to meet the people who influence the decision makers, but very rapidly and in a short period of time, the Institute found itself sort of at the center of things. I'm interested in that kind of transition and how that happened, which I know that it's the alchemy and the mystery of it, but I'm interested in what your suspicions are about why that happened, when it did, and sort of just the Institute's place and sort of the historical moment that you guys were living through.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=1220.0,1266.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nWell, I think I would have misled the viewer in saying that we didn't have both, in a way. For the substantive critical research and influencing that the Institute and its family did of fellows, et cetera, that was where we didn't have the ministers of defense involved. These were the people who grew the shared experience, the shared exposure, and that built a trust and network that was beyond anything anyone could have envisioned. In terms of top lead leaders, we always had them involved in the guidance of the Institute through board membership or special presidential advisors. We had Johan Holst who was such a major figure in, in his time. We had Flora Lewis, one of the great New York Times writers. We had– Martti Ahtisaari came later, former president of Finland, but we had that level of individual.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=1266.0,1335.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nThen as the things changed and we were working with Russians as opposed to Soviets at the time and the Berlin Wall fell, we had the first president Romania  Ion Iliescu, who was involved. So we had those individuals, but what happened was, I think that the individuals who graduated from the Institute in a more informal, but formal way engagement, were trusted individuals that you would go to and you would ask for their advice. Their speeches reflected breaking points, their influence over leaders reflected connectivity that maybe didn't happen before. I think that's a very important thing. It's interesting. I was having a conversation with someone who will emerge as a great figure within the Institute, an extraordinary friend to John, Peter Castenfelt and Peter and I were talking about, as we sometimes do, the old days.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=1335.0,1397.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nHe and John had some unique, shared opportunities and experiences. So they had a level of friendship related to that, that was very special. But one of the things that I said to Peter and he agreed was, I almost feel like the old original days of the Institute are more needed today than ever before. That's because we brought people together, whether it was a Ditchley Park experience, whether it was just things that took place, things that people will never know about that were instigated by the Institute or John or the connectivity of the family, the network of the family. I think we were talking about Karl Kaiser who pointed out to me recently a New York Times article about some extraordinary efforts that took place that both he and Peter Castenfelt were involved in. That’s a great example of why it was important to get [fellows], because a lot of these people were in their thirties to forties. Some now, today who are in their seventies, eighties or fifties, sixties, whatever the case might be.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=1397.0,1463.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nBut particularly that original time, that was such an exciting time of discovery over what could be. John used to hand out the ... I think it was the Jefferson papers, when it came to emerging new democracies. You want to know what it is to create [a democracy] ... read this book, read this. They were things that, that he talk about sort of that we would have a board meeting. I would say to him, I'm going to just have a little side talk with the girls, which I don't mean to offend any of our feminists, but that was the easy way to get things dealt with sometimes. What we would have were these incredible panels of women emerging in Eastern Europe, as some of the top leaders in parliament, et cetera, who came sometimes as the partners of some of our key people who now were emerging in their own right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=1463.0,1517.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nIt was extraordinary what we would do and what we would learn from them. So again, there was that sort of whole network that worked. But I think again, to get back to the original question, which you have to remind me to do Emily, is the fact that unique collaboration, that unique ability, that growing with the people you spotted at an early point in their career, or at a point in their career where you gave them sufficient encouragement, backbone, support, whatever you want to call it, to take that bold step forward and to recommend something or to bring together individuals. It's why Putin came to the Institute at one point very, very, very, very early in his career–I don't know that he'd do it today to anyone– and said, \"I want a coffee table approach to X, Y, Z. Can you put it together for me?\" What emerged from that was extraordinary in terms of bringing US leaders together.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=1517.0,1583.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nThat's a whole story in itself. Someone else can tell, but I think that sort of answers your question on how it emerged and why spot those folks and why it was successful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=1583.0,1593.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Emily Whalen\n\nYeah, it's always sort of foregrounding the human connection and the personal over the political.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=1593.0,1599.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nAgain, back to that diagnosis, prescription, and ever changing [metaphor],. Diseases do not go away completely. They're always observed, they’re ever changing. You change the medication, you change the therapy, you change whatever it happens to be in order to tweak it, you grow with the times of medicine. So as a result, that's what John did for all of our doctor friends out there. I think he had an MD in political science or something along that lines.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=1599.0,1631.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Emily Whalen\n\nWonderful. Well, we will wrap up here for this very first session, but I'm sure we'll have many more conversations. Thank you so much, Karen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=1631.0,1638.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz\n\nThank you, Emily. Thanks for your patience with all the storytelling.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=1638.0,1642.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307/transcript/35851/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Emily Whalen\n\nI love the storytelling. So this is a lot of fun for me. Okay, I'm going to stop recording.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/69740/file/154307#t=1642.0,1648.542"}]}]}]}