{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/vm42r3q912/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Mitchell Sonkin, April 6, 2023"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2023-04-06 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewer"]},"value":{"en":["Whalen, Emily"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewee"]},"value":{"en":["Sonkin, Mitchell"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eIn this interview, Mitchell Sonkin, who served as legal counsel to the EastWest Institute for many years, discusses his legal career in non-profit organizations, the U.S. federal government, and the corporate world. Having watched EWI grow since its inception, Sonkin took on a variety of challenges over the years, from brokering leases on offices to ensuring that EWI was taking on no liabilities in its many international endeavors. Sonkin recalls several memorable EWI board meetings, particularly one in Potsdam, East Germany, right before the end of the Cold War, and another in the far north of Russia. He explains that John Mroz's ability to connect with people as human beings was part of what made EWI so unique among similar organizations. \u003c/p\u003e (abstract)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Contributing Institution"]},"value":{"en":["College of Charleston Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Media Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral History"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Personal or Corporate"]},"value":{"en":["Arafat, Yasir","Ceaușescu, Nicolae","EastWest Institute","Mroz, John Edwin","North Atlantic Treaty Organization","Wallach, Ira"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Topical"]},"value":{"en":["Cold War","Corporate culture","International relations","Law","Leadership","Non-governmental organizations","Post-communism","Track two diplomacy"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Geographic"]},"value":{"en":["Europe, Eastern","Germany (East)","Middle East","Palestine","Russia"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type IMT"]},"value":{"en":["video/mp4"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright © College of Charleston\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date Digital"]},"value":{"en":["2023-04-26"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eIn this interview, Mitchell Sonkin, who served as legal counsel to the EastWest Institute for many years, discusses his legal career in non-profit organizations, the U.S. federal government, and the corporate world. Having watched EWI grow since its inception, Sonkin took on a variety of challenges over the years, from brokering leases on offices to ensuring that EWI was taking on no liabilities in its many international endeavors. Sonkin recalls several memorable EWI board meetings, particularly one in Potsdam, East Germany, right before the end of the Cold War, and another in the far north of Russia. He explains that John Mroz's ability to connect with people as human beings was part of what made EWI so unique among similar organizations.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright \u0026copy; College of Charleston\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/185/915/small/Sonkin_Mitchell_Apr2023.mp4_1682523542.jpg?1682523543","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Sonkin_Mitchell_Apr2023.mp4"]},"duration":2734.336,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/185/915/small/Sonkin_Mitchell_Apr2023.mp4_1682523542.jpg?1682523543","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-cofc.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/185/915/original/Sonkin_Mitchell_Apr2023.mp4?1682523538","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":2734.336,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Transcript of Interview with Mitchell Sonkin, April 6, 2023 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nOkay. My name is Emily Whalen. It is Thursday, April 6th, 2023, and this is an oral history interview for the EWI Society Oral History Project at the College of Charleston. Please introduce yourself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=0.0,15.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nGood morning. This is Mitchell Sonkin. I am a former founding director of the EastWest Institute and was a member of the board of directors and the institute's legal council for in excess of 20 years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=15.0,33.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nAnd do you remember when you very first heard of the EastWest Institute or the first time you met John Mroz?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=33.0,38.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nOf course. Well, first time I met John Mroz was when I was a freshman in college. I was a freshman in college at Northeastern University in Boston. John and Karen were already together then. John was a teaching fellow in the political science department and I was a physical education major and I had to take a couple of social science courses. So I picked a course, don't ask me why, in political philosophy and wound up having a professor with John as the teaching fellow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=38.0,82.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What I remember most vividly was starting to read, and I had a voracious appetite for it, Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau, whatever I could get my hands on and read. John turned to me one day and said, \"What are you doing being a physical education major?\" I said, \"Well, I played ball in high school.\" And like a lot of other 18 year olds, not necessarily well-guided, who knows. Any event, that was the beginning of a relationship that became an extraordinarily close relationship with John and Karen. That was 1970, to give you an idea. So we're really going back a ways, and of course we still have that relationship with Karen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=82.0,138.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Unfortunately, we lost John, which was difficult, but he was the one who kind of lit the spark. I wound up transferring schools, becoming a political science major, going onto law school and a wonderful career in law and business and maintained that relationship with John. Now, the institute was kind of a twinkle in John's eye for a long time, until 1980, when a terrific philanthropist Ira Wallach, who John had met and they befriended each other. John shared his vision and Ira said, \"Let's do it.\" And John said, \"Well, that's easy, but takes a lot of capital.\" And Ira said, \"I'll provide the capital, at least the seed capital.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=138.0,202.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So they came to me. I was asked to organize what was then not the EastWest Institute, but the Institute for ... I think it may have been the Institute for East West Studies, if I recall correctly, maybe even been some other incarnation. But of course I was a young lawyer, but I knew absolutely nothing about how to form a 501c)3) and how to get it up and running, but I did, and we went on from there. There were only three of us that were part of the first board of directors and we had our first board of directors meeting sometime in '80, I believe, at Bruno's Restaurant in New York, which was one of Ira's go-to places, and we're sitting around this table and I'm trying to be formal. I mean, after all, I'm a young lawyer. Call the meeting to order, make sure we're doing all the things we should.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=202.0,272.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Anyway, that was the beginnings. There was no ... I don't think we had. I'm not sure if there was yet any physical space for it. That may have come a little bit later. I don't recall exactly. But in any event, that was a long answer to a short question, and that's how I met John and that's how I started with the institute.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=272.0,297.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nAnd what would you say, you'd known John for a while at this point, how would you have described the institute at its founding? What was it doing? What was the value added?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=297.0,307.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nSo first of all, John was a force of nature. I mean, there were very few people that could say no to him, at least in his world. He had a vision of a role that the institute could play in bilateral discussions, track two, bringing together military, political and other government folks from all parts of the spectrum for collaborative research and to hunt for solutions to the things that were facing us at the time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=307.0,359.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, primarily we were in the Cold War, we were also dealing with the background of the very difficult, which remains difficult today, Arab-Israeli conflict, but that was the goal. John set out to create not only a diverse board of directors, but also to start to build a team and a staff and do other fundraising with a goal of providing this opportunity for collaborative research. By the way, that research would take place primarily in New York because that was the only physical location when we finally got a physical location that was there. So we got into space fairly early on, but that was John's vision.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=359.0,416.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nAnd he was doing some work with the Arab-Israeli conflict at the time in the 1980s. Did you know very much about that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=416.0,425.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nYeah, I mean, for better or worse, I kind of knew about everything. You get that in terms of being the consigliere to the organization and fixer, problem solver, et cetera. Yes. I mean, John was quite involved in trying to build a bridge into the Palestinian community, deal with Chairman Arafat and tried to be kind of an unofficial, because there really couldn't be a lot of fingerprints on it, envoy between Washington and the Palestinian Authority.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=425.0,469.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He was very much involved in that. It was all behind the scenes until some reporter from the New York Times got ahold of the scoop. I remember very clearly waking up one morning, and I think it was on the front page of the Times. I think it was about 1984, '85, somewhere in that time period, and we had an interesting moment there. We had to figure out how to deal with it. There's nothing inherently wrong for what was being done after all, even to this day kind of backdoor diplomacy, sidebars is really the way that a lot of things got done. I think that was particularly true with building bridges between East and West at what became kind of the later stages of the Cold War and we were very active in that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=469.0,538.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah. So you served on the board for, I think I looked at the dates, 1982 to 2003. So you saw many sort of iterations.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=538.0,551.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nI did, I did. Then I think after 2003 John may have convinced me to come back again. I don't recall.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=551.0,556.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=556.0,556.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nBut I just like, okay, it's enough. You guys can do it. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=556.0,565.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nI guess focusing on the 1980s first, what did you see as the institute's main projects, main challenges, main successes in that period?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=565.0,579.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nYeah, I think the different people may have different views on this, but I saw the institute's primary mission as being able to bring together key players from East and West, and by East and West back then I'm talking about Eastern Europe, the former Soviet republics, what we now refer to as the Russian Federation, and the West, which you know can loosely describe as NATO, although it looked a little different back then because we didn't have Hungary and didn't have Romania and others. To find ways to use the institute, the institute's staff, because don't forget, we are bringing together, I would say, middle level from East and West, but we did it in a way that we kind of knew that at some point they were going to go from the middle to the top in building those relationships and forging those relationships would be helpful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=579.0,655.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"John was not afraid to, nor was the board afraid to promote that kind of discussion, dialogue between very different factions, get the military component of it talking as well. We had some of our board meetings in Eastern Europe, again, during the time when it was still the Cold War, and it was wasn't the easiest or most enjoyable travel because of a variety of reasons, but it was fascinating and I think that it helped to make a difference.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=655.0,705.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah. Do you remember any board meeting in particular from that time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=705.0,711.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nA couple. I remember we had a meeting in East Germany. We had as part of that, I think we were in Potsdam, but we were in East Berlin for meetings. We had meetings and a dinner with Eric Honecker who was the leader of East Germany at the time. That was being in East Berlin, and we had some free time, so I spent some time with one of our board members moving around the East, whether or not we should have, we decided we were going to do it anyway, but he was a State Department guy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=711.0,765.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I remember that one, I remember a meeting that we had in Romania where we also had an opportunity in addition to. We were kind of at a Lakeside retreat, but we were also in Bucharest for part of it and had an audience and a dinner with Ceaușescu, and these aren't just names to throw around. I mean, there was real work going on behind the scenes, but of course they were authoritarian regimes and it's a binary outcome. Either you're going to stay that way or there's going to be some sort of convulsion revolt, which will lead to a different form of government, and sure enough, that happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=765.0,816.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I remember when it did happen. I remember being in Germany when it happened and it was truly an extraordinary time to go through, but I know you can't completely understand that unless you actually travel to some of these places. We were in Hungary, Romania, East Germany and Poland. It was extraordinary. It was extraordinary. The people were extraordinary, but they were brought together by a common, I would say a common purpose, a common interest of trying to figure out how to make a bad situation better and see if it could be done on a longer term basis with a promotion of civil society, democracy, et cetera. Not an easy thing to do. It comes at a cost, as it did. Those were a couple of examples of the meetings back then.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=816.0,882.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen recently showed me a couple of photos that she had from a few of our meetings when we were in session. She showed it to me because I was always placed in the board meetings next to John, usually either Ira or Don Kendall. I don't know if you know who Don Kendall is. Okay. Was there, and I was probably punching above my weight at the time because I was still a young lawyer. I was ascending, but I was still a young lawyer, and it was quite a remarkable experience. I think that they're quite remarkable achievements and I give, while there are others involved, the vision, the energy, the drive, it was John. Okay. If you would sit down with John and he would pick your brain, have discussion, he would always have with him index cards, okay. Index cards and a index card kind of leather holder and he would be furiously making notes on his index cards. Emily, he must have had thousands of index cards, which he would fill up with notes to himself with ideas, et cetera, et cetera, and he was unusual.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=882.0,972.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nIn your position as legal counsel, can you give us a sense of the range of issues that you dealt with in this sort of period of the end of the Cold War with the institute? I imagine it was quite diverse.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=972.0,987.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nYeah, I mean, I can talk about some, I can't talk about most, but it would range from dealing with HR issues to, I would say, documentation challenges that we had, to trying to figure out with John how we were going to deal with things like the leak to the New York Times and still deal with Washington in a way that was not going to cause any damage. To trying to plot out what the future course might be for the organization, expansion, opening up other centers in Europe and Russia. So there were really a whole host of things and some of them were not completely in my wheelhouse, shall we say, but I learned. Obviously as I matured as a young lawyer and moved up and became a partner in my firm, I had a lot more resources and support for it. But it was a pretty wide range of very interesting issues.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=987.0,1074.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah, it sounds like a whole other education.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1074.0,1076.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nIt's a whole other education.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1076.0,1079.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYou mentioned expansion and that sort of leads me kind of leading us into the 1990s. Can you talk a little bit about the transition that the institute went through after the fall of the Soviet Union and after the Cold War ended?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1079.0,1092.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nYeah. So I don't remember exactly when it was, but the first thing was kind of okay, it's time to redefine the mission and also change the name. So it went from East West Security Studies to the EastWest Institute, and that was to reflect not necessarily the East and West any longer, as you had related to the Cold War, but also to expand the footprint and to begin to take into account that the world was a rapidly changing place. China was going to play a role, how to build bridges in other places, how to continue the development of these networks of professionals who now were kind of moving up the ranks in Central and Eastern Europe. And by the way, because the changes took place, there was a lot of work to be done, obviously, to get them to the place that it was. But there was a recognition that several called one, it would be a good idea to place resource into one or two places in Europe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1092.0,1171.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It would also be important to start expanding the footprint to focusing some attention on the Middle East, focusing attention on the far East and Southeast and South Asia. In kind of searching to figure out what that sweet spot was, where as it had been before, it could be highly impactful in a positive kind of way. I think that John was great at working his relationships and his contacts and he really developed a rather interesting and exceptional board, which was able to provide a lot of contacts. So yeah, it was kind of a shifting mission as we got into the mid to late nineties and early 2000s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1171.0,1240.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If I left in 2003, I can only take it up to when I left. And it also became, it was a much bigger organization, much different budget. We moved into new and expanded office space down on Lower Broadway. But John, he never wavered from who he was, what he views as his purpose and mission. His commitment to doing it and cementing and continuing critical relationships ranging from who worked at the institute, to the board, to alumni of projects that had been going on at the institute.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1240.0,1294.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I remember there was an early project I think I believe it was dealing with cybersecurity, and I would tell you that probably nine out of 10 people, if you brought that term up at the time would've like, \"Huh?\" But there was vision there and it was unique. The flip side of it is that when you have someone who's kind of the visionary, the oracle, the one who's basically an entrepreneurial owner of something that he gave life to along with others, it's also very hard to ever find a successor for somebody like that because you're jumping into a pair of shoes that no matter what you do, someone is going to refer to, well, John wouldn't have done this or he would've done that, et cetera.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1294.0,1357.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah. Going back a little bit to that period of the '90s. I know from reading board meeting minutes that there was a moment when there was a question of should the EastWest Institute continue at all. Do you remember those conversations?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1357.0,1375.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nI vaguely remember the conversations. I remember there was a debate. I personally never took it very seriously because I couldn't imagine a scenario where it wouldn't reinvent itself because John was a true chameleon in that respect. So I do have some. I mean, they were reasonable questions to raise because the focus had been on Central and Eastern Europe, building bridges to the West, and now all of a sudden it's like, oh my God, this really happens. Walking down, the changes took place, et cetera.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1375.0,1419.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So yeah, there was some, but I personally, I mean, I was in the debate, part of debate, you can look at the minutes. I haven't looked at the minutes in many years, but I don't think we ever got to a point where we actually voted on dissolving the organization. It was a very healthy discussion to have when you feel like your initial mission may be concluded and you have to reinvent yourself and you have to ask the questions of can we remain relevant. Can we really be a force that will contribute to the greater good somehow?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1419.0,1461.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah. And you alluded to some of the challenges of having such a charismatic leader. Do you remember any other sort of challenges that the institute faced? I think that would be my question.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1461.0,1477.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nI mean, not challenges which I would call existential challenges. I actually think one of the most significant challenges we had was dealing with succession, and tried though we did to develop succession plans. I mean, things that are just good corporate governance, because by then I had really become much more aware and much more steeped in corporate governance, et cetera, and that was an issue. I mean, when you have somebody like John, Stephen Heintz, he's a terrific human being. He was John's partner for a long time, but for Stephen, it was time for him to grow and become a leader of other organizations. He went to one or two before he wound up at RBF. But I think that was a big challenge that we had, and I'm not sure we nailed it the way that we wanted to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1477.0,1557.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah, that's understandable. We mentioned that you left the institute in the early 2000s, but I imagine you stayed in touch with John Mroz and were still aware of the institute.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1557.0,1565.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nI mean, we were very close and that closeness continued right up to the time of his death, and we're still close with Karen. That relationship was important for both of us because we were kids. I mean, John may have been my teaching fellow, but he was all of four or five years older than I was, and I was around when they were busy adopting Jonathan and then Jeffrey and Jessica. It went beyond the bounds, and I think that was the case for a lot of people who were close to John and directors and what have you. It's almost a familial kind of environment, and of course families always have certain issues, but it was a remarkably, I think, smooth running organization. Always had the challenge of fundraising in a changing world and a changing environment, but John was extremely successful at doing that as well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1565.0,1655.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah. You mentioned sort of the world changing, and it strikes me that you have this friendship with John and connection with the institute over a pretty transformative series of decades in world history.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1655.0,1669.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nYes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1669.0,1669.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nI wonder, can you give me the highlights of what you think were the important things that changed that affected the work of the institute? Maybe a pretty broad question.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1669.0,1680.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nYeah. Well, it's a broad question, but that's okay, giving me some room. I think I would say that the ability to kind of morph from a mission that may have been defined using the same definition, but applied in different ways. So going from dealing with the Middle East to then you're dealing heavily with Central and Eastern Europe. After that, you're becoming more global in your approach. Why? Because we were increasingly moving at kind of lightning speed to globalize commerce, to globalize and make the world a smaller place, which was great, but also, you weren't exactly sure how it was going to play out in terms of how successful would some of the countries be in transforming. How successful would the West or the Israelis and Washington be with Arafat?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1680.0,1760.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obviously, you know, you look at the world today and it's just a magnified version of what it was back in the 1980s as far as Israel and Palestine, although things are changing. So I'd say the moving from Middle East to Central and Eastern Europe, to really being, I think, remarkably successful at identifying what I'll call research fellows and others who were able to get a leave of absence from their ministries, from other roles they may have played in the government in order to come to New York primarily and engage in these collaborative discussions. There were definitive research projects that frequently produce a work out of those. So I think the ability to adapt and adjust to a changing world and still remain relevant, which I think it did, was probably some of the bigger challenges and successes that they had.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1760.0,1836.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah, for sure. What are you proudest of with regards to your work with the EastWest Institute?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1836.0,1845.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nWell, I'm really glad that we never had to encounter an IRS audit. That's not the proud. Then we did the things that we were supposed to do, I believe. I would say it's being part, being one part of the fabric of the organization where you had an extraordinarily committed group of people, different skill sets, different interests, different backgrounds, who were all prepared to come together for a shared mission or a shared vision. So just being part of that and part of the dialogue about how do we do this, where do we go, where do we not go, how do we do it without creating issues with funders, governments.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1845.0,1902.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think we did a good job of maneuvering, and I think we did a good job of being in the places that a contribution to, at worse, the dialogue, and at best, dialogue that may lead to certain changes and solutions to keep the temperature down. I'm sorry that John isn't around now because ... I mean, personally sorry, but also I think that this world would've presented a whole new set of challenges and it would've been interesting to see how John and the institute, and if they could adapt and adjust to the world that we live in now and what role could they play.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1902.0,1956.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"John, as I said, had the ability to go almost anywhere and meet the right people, and of course I'd worry at times about his security. We didn't always go to the most stable places. But I would say seeing that transition over a period of 20 something years and standing the test of time was what, or among the things I was most proud of. And of course figuring out how to keep the organization and John out of trouble.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1956.0,1997.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nThat's no small task at all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1997.0,1999.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nWell, John was a challenge at times.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=1999.0,2003.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2003.0,2004.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nAnd fortunately I had his ear and was able to discuss things with him and he got it. If you spoke to him, he got it. His mind was going in 100 different directions. Some people nowadays might have referred to that as ADHD, but it wasn't for him. I mean, he truly had these ideas and theses visions about the role and important role to be played, and sometimes we try to pursue more than one at a time. So hope that answers your question.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2004.0,2049.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nIt does, yeah. Give us a little sense of how your career progressed after you moved on from the institute. I know that you remained in close touch, but I'm wondering, I guess, if your time at the institute impacted sort of later decisions in your life with regards to your career or ...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2049.0,2071.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nThat's a good question. Let me just start at the end and work back. I've had a great career and there's absolutely nothing I would've changed about it. The level of responsibilities, I was one of the management partners, management committee members of very big, and well run, and well-known law firm on Wall Street and then after that, another one. I would say that as those responsibilities increased, it became a little more difficult to dedicate the time and attention. Also, there were just more demands on it to do other things, to become involved in other boards, particularly college boards, and so that kept going. John and I would meet and we'd talk all along the way and he'd come in and he'd have a whole page of things that he wanted to talk about and get advice on and ask opinions on, and that never stopped.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2071.0,2148.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Of course, my views on some of this changed as I became more experienced, but I wound up practicing law from 1978 until about 2004, and then wound up going to one of my longtime clients in the finance business on Wall Street asked me to join, not as a lawyer, as a business person. It took me probably not one of my finer moments. When the board chair asked if I would do this, I looked at him and said, \"Why on earth would I want to do that?\" And then I realized he was serious and it took me several months to kind of work it through, deal with my partner. I mean, it was a big deal, and I was moving into ... Every lawyer, I think, believes that he or she will be a good business person. Why? I don't know, okay, but I think few actually get the opportunity and fewer yet get to have a good opportunity and be successful at it, so it really took some thought.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2148.0,2221.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I did that and I went to ... I'm a restructuring lawyer, dealt with large corporate bankruptcies and issues. I remember the first thing I did when I agreed to go over to the firm was lead the restructuring effort on Eurotunnel, the Eurostar, and then just a series of fascinating but troubled deals all over the world. Then of course came the great financial crisis and I wound up spending a huge amount of time at the Treasury Department and elsewhere in Washington. We were really looking at how we were going to come out of this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2221.0,2266.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And any event, I continued to do that, enjoyed it, and technically retired in 2011. I say technically retired in 2011 because even though I retired from the C-suite, the board asked me to stay on and I became something like I think a senior advisor to the board because we had a bunch of issues that we needed to deal with and they wanted me around to help deal with those things. I was prepared to be around, not full-time, so it was time to go and enjoy some other things, but I kept doing that and just getting ready to finally wrap that up. I've been working on the restructuring of Puerto Rico's debt for about the past five, six years and we're just about done with that. But that's opened other doors to me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2266.0,2325.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm an independent director in FTX, if you're familiar with FTX.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2325.0,2329.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah. I may have heard of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2329.0,2331.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nYeah. Was brought in as soon as the bankruptcy. There are five of us who are independent directors overseeing everything. I've had a really good career.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2331.0,2344.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nWell, and you've seen the world change in some pretty striking ways. I wonder, do you think that something like the EastWest Institute could exist now in the same way?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2344.0,2360.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nGood question. I think it could. I think the role and the mission would be a little different. I don't know, it's hard for me to know if we would be successful in terms of dealing with the Russian Federation and dealing with China and its current iteration. I like to think that because of John's globalism that there would've been a role, but it's difficult to say.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2360.0,2398.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'll tell you a quick story. In 1996 I was asked to go to Moscow with a small group of judges and a few lawyers to help Russia create a creditor's right scheme, to put that into perspective. You cannot get big investment, big foreign investment unless those investors know that their investment is going to be protected, that there will be a rule of law, that there will be a scheme, that they're not going to wake up one morning and find, oh, we just decided to nationalize, as it happened in the past. When I went to Moscow for these, to try to teach, it was really a teaching moment with officials in the Ministry of Finance. Moscow was like the wild west, it really was. I took my wife with me. We thought we almost got hijacked one night. It was just this fascinating place. On the other hand, after that we went to St. Petersburg. Have you been to any of these places?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2398.0,2474.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nI have not been to Russia. It's a big blank spot in my travel, and unfortunately I think I probably won't be going to Russia anytime soon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2474.0,2482.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nWell, not right now. But I'll tell you, if you go to Russia and you just go to Moscow, you come back with one impression and say, you know what? Don't bother going.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2482.0,2493.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2493.0,2495.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nIf you went to Russian and you only went to St. Petersburg, you'd come back and say, \"Oh my God, what a magnificent country.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2495.0,2502.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nI've heard that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2502.0,2503.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nAnd culture and, you know, the Bolshoi—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2503.0,2503.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah, actually, I have heard. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2503.0,2506.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nYeah. It's just completely different experiences. And of course it reflects the fact that it's a large and diverse country, not as large and diverse as it was once upon a time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2506.0,2517.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nRight.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2517.0,2517.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nSo anyway, I like to think that he could, that the institute could. I think in the later years leading up to when John passed away, other than trying to counsel John, I really wasn't involved on the board. Went through changes, Ross Perot. I mean, you know, different things. Nothing that I hadn't seen before, but it just kind of morphed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2517.0,2549.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nOne thing that we're hoping with this, with the archive is that it's not just for researchers, but also for students. So I'm asking everyone, given your career, given the amazing things that you've done and seen and been a part of, what sort of advice might you have for a student of international relations today?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2549.0,2572.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nWell, that's a really good question. I probably would want to think about that, but I'll give you kind of a couple of off the cuff the discussions. I think that you need to view the world broadly, critically, including both sides of the conflict, because there's never one that's completely right or completely wrong because they're just very different views on how things should work. But what I would say is if you really want to see the world, what you need to do if you're going to be in that field, you have to go see the world. You have to go to places, understand the people, the cultures, understand the differences between the government and the populace, and we even have that in this country, and to understand that a more global view is probably the right approach to the extent that international relations, it's a very broad term. But some may decide, you know what? I'm going to go work for the State Department. Great. Some may decide if they get the opportunity, they're going to go work for an NGO. Some may decide that they want to do that overseas. Others will decide, well, what I really want to do is take my bachelor's and move on to a more advanced degree where I have this opportunity for collaborative research, being more specialized and beginning to understand where I can really be effective and make a contribution.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2572.0,2687.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So international, it's kind of words, words, words until you really apply it and try to define it individually. But I think students, they should seek out guidance, mentors. You can't come into it thinking that everything you need you're going to be able to get off the internet or social media because you can't. So much of what goes on isn't there. So that's probably not the best answer, but it's the best I can do off the cuff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2687.0,2722.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nIt's great advice and it's a great place for us to wrap up. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2722.0,2728.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MITCHELL SONKIN\n\nYou bet. Good luck. And what's the timetable on this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2728.0,2732.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915/transcript/42742/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nI'll just pause really quick.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/89872/file/185915#t=2732.0,2734.336"}]}]}]}