{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/vq2s46jg66/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Karen Linehan Mroz, December 12, 2022"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2022-12-12 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewer"]},"value":{"en":["Whalen, Emily"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewee"]},"value":{"en":["Mroz, Karen Linehan"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eKaren Mroz discusses the final years of the EastWest Institute, chronicling how fundraising and political challenges made the work of the Institute increasingly difficult, despite the great need for the services EWI provided. After conversations with Ross Perot, Jr., and other prominent members of the Board, EWI's leadership decided to create a legacy institute at the College of Charleston, establishing a center that would teach John Mroz's leadership and diplomacy style to future generations of global leaders. \u003c/p\u003e (abstract)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Contributing Institution"]},"value":{"en":["College of Charleston Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Media Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral History"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Personal or Corporate"]},"value":{"en":["College of Charleston","EastWest Institute","Mroz, John Edwin"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Topical"]},"value":{"en":["Education","Leadership","Non-governmental organizations","Organizational chang"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type IMT"]},"value":{"en":["video/mp4"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright © College of Charleston\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date Digital"]},"value":{"en":["2023-01-27"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eKaren Mroz discusses the final years of the EastWest Institute, chronicling how fundraising and political challenges made the work of the Institute increasingly difficult, despite the great need for the services EWI provided. After conversations with Ross Perot, Jr., and other prominent members of the Board, EWI's leadership decided to create a legacy institute at the College of Charleston, establishing a center that would teach John Mroz's leadership and diplomacy style to future generations of global leaders.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright \u0026copy; College of Charleston\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/174/061/small/Mroz_Karen_Dec2022.mp4_1674675173.jpg?1674675174","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Mroz_Karen_Dec2022.mp4"]},"duration":1657.12,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/174/061/small/Mroz_Karen_Dec2022.mp4_1674675173.jpg?1674675174","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-cofc.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/174/061/original/Mroz_Karen_Dec2022.mp4?1674675170","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":1657.12,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Transcript of Interview with Karen Mroz, December 12, 2022 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KAREN MROZ\n\nOh, good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=0.0,3.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nOkay, Karen. Great. You ready to start?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=3.0,6.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KAREN MROZ\n\nI think so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=6.0,8.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nAll right. Let's get going. Last time we talked, we spoke about your work with the Middle East Children's Institute and with the United Nations. I would love it if we could talk this time about your time on the board of the EastWest Institute.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=8.0,23.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KAREN MROZ\n\nSure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=23.0,24.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nWhen were you invited to join the board of the EastWest Institute?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=24.0,27.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KAREN MROZ\n\nIn the fall of 2014, so I served until closure in 2020.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=27.0,33.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nGreat. You were invited after John's passing to become a member of the board?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=33.0,39.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KAREN MROZ\n\nYes. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=39.0,41.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah. How would...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=41.0,42.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KAREN MROZ\n\nSorry. I was going to say and then I'm not exactly sure when, Emily, but I want to say maybe 2018 I was asked to be on the executive committee. Somewhere 18, 19, somewhere in that timeframe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=42.0,58.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nTell us a little bit about the atmosphere after John's passing with the Institute, what your plans were, what the hopes were for the survival of the EastWest Institute.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=58.0,68.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KAREN MROZ\n\nWell, I almost have to step back a little bit before that. John, I don't think anyone who is in the position of founder and CEO ever likes to really sit down and do what everyone should do, which is a succession plan. There had been some discussions, but John was going to live to be, as we all hope to, a ripe old age, retire, or ascend to heaven as I think it's the Japanese have it, so that he would be a part of the Institute for his full life. Sadly, it didn't last as long as he hoped or any of us hoped would happen, so it was a quick and sudden occurrence, and I think everybody thought he would come through in one form or another and then come back to do it. None of us were really focused on it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=68.0,116.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When John passed, when it became evident that this was not going to turn out the way anyone hoped, we all began to think in terms of what would happen next, and I used to say to people, \"You know, it's often said it's a big pair of shoes to fill, but put his on the museum shelf because filling his shoes is not going to be easy, so create the position that somebody...\" You know, what are the elements of what John did? And one of the difficulties, I think it happens in NGOs and it happens in academia, is that the president's job is to initiate, facilitate, work with a team of development, and have a certain portion of that individual's performance based on what they're able to bring in or facilitate bringing in. So, finding the person who is substantively qualified, and have the ability to run an operation, and to fundraise even with the best of teams, especially following that in John's footsteps, he was unique in his ability to hunt and gather, as we used to say on the development side.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=116.0,194.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, it was a little bit difficult. Worked with a great search committee and a great search firm. My recollection is we had 80-plus candidates and that's when I was asked to be involved in sort of reviewing and talking with the search firm, and in some cases talking to some of the candidates. And it became clear that we wouldn't find all those criteria, but we found a great person in Cameron Munter, who was the first to replace John, and then worked with Cameron sort of on the side quietly, and always were available for questions for him to bring forth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=194.0,233.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think the difficulty, and this was something John and I had a lot of discussion about when I would ask him if you were to create pearls of wisdom for the future of the Institute, what would those be? And one of the things as we talked about the history, because when you're going through something like that, you can't help but walk down memory lane in a lot of ways. And we did so. And I think one of the things that he was always concerned about was maintaining the true international aspect of the Institute, that it was not... Although we were graciously and very generously supported by a U.S. foundation of giving, we really strived, and the kinds of quality of people that we had on the board, I think back on Johan Holst [Johan Jørgen Holst], and Martti Ahtisaari, and so many of the caliber of that level. We always wanted to maintain those more than anything else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=233.0,292.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so, his concern was not to become, to always make sure that we did not accept funds from government except in kind, for example, conference support, or as we did with Germany, where we had wonderful ambassadors filling those positions, and that was something we talked an awful lot about. And not to become too... It wasn't to become to militarized, but appear to become too of any one thing. Too American heavy board, too much military of any kind, but that the programs is where those things show up, but not necessarily one side or another weighing down the leadership of the Institute. That was a big concern for him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=292.0,338.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think what became very difficult was the development side of things. And then I would say when the pandemic hit and we saw the rise in the need for things in the United States that probably never saw in our lifetime, more things you would see in wartime when there were food pantries opening up, and jobs being lost, many of our key donors had to say something along the lines of, \"I have to look at how much I'm giving internationally and in my backyard people are starving and they're unemployed. I have to transfer some of that over to the needs at home that I've never had to address to this degree, and therefore I'm cutting back on the international side of things.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=338.0,388.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then the other thing that came up that took a lot of people's funding away was the entire refugee situation no matter where it was. It was ever growing, and ever challenging refugees within the countries, and then if we had the Institute open today with Ukraine, I think we probably might see a surge in fundraising, but still the global challenges to fundraising even, and because the Institute's work, so much rested on John, so much was quietly done that we're learning about through these oral histories, et cetera, it's difficult to kind of sell. You're selling air. John was really good at selling air. Because it was the concept, the idea, where he thought it could go, and then he would relay some history.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=388.0,436.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It became a challenge, I think, a huge challenge, to keep up with the fundraising needs of the Institute. Those were kind of the priorities and then we replaced our first president after John, and those were the kinds of things that became all consuming, and then suddenly it was a do or die. Do we run out of funding or do we take it and take the best of the best programs and then create, as we did in College of Charleston, something to educate the next generation of leaders? So, that pretty much was the flow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=436.0,473.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah. Do you remember kind of the conversations you had that made you realize that something was going to need to change for the Institute? I'm thinking probably in early 2020.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=473.0,486.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KAREN MROZ\n\nYou know, I think we all saw the handwriting on the wall at various points and shapes. Some before others. But they definitely... We began to see, question how long could this go on, and I think when it turns to a financial discussion, how much longer can we sustain this, and then should we sustain it, could we do something with the endowment, the funding that we had, in order to start anew, guarantee some longevity in having these programs adopt. There was a sort of a transition that took place. And as that transition rolled out, we saw more and more evidence that this is the right route to go.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=486.0,531.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I had a conversation with our chairman at the time, Ross Perot, which was so helpful, on what did I think, and sort of having lived the 40 years more than anyone I think at the board at that time with John, and what was John thinking, and what would he want. John would want to see it go on forever, but I think if he were giving us some thoughts on it, it would be to try to salvage and save and preserve. Those would be his words. Reluctantly, but I think he'd have to agree to that. And from the standpoint of what to do in John's name, which was so considerate of Ross and the board, we talked about scholarships, and I'm all for scholarships, but what was my big concern, and we may have touched on this before, so if we did, tell me we've already done that routine, Karen. But my concern was I thought we could raise money down the road for scholarships if we had something to raise it for. And all I could think of were the thousands of people that had been involved in the Institute in enormous and small ways. What could we learn from the Institute? What could we teach? And that if we had something to teach, then we could have the scholarships.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=531.0,605.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, we looked at the wonderful work you've done writing the book, and all to pull that history together. Could we create a curriculum that would allow us to teach future generations about global leadership? And that's when we thought, \"Okay, where can we archive the material?\" And the College of Charleston has been phenomenal under the School of Languages, Cultures, and World Affairs, which John was instrumental in strategically thinking through and setting up with the college, and Hilton and Catherine Smith, and the late Bill Smith, who was a board member and donor to the Institute. It just seemed that that was a fit. And while the funding was tremendous, the idea of going to Notre Dame, which he loved, but Notre Dame is such a well-endowed institution, it was very little compared to what they have. It just seemed like this was the right place to do this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=605.0,662.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And now we have so much that's going on under the Mroz Institute, which never was even a thought on my mind, but graciously the college established it, has become the umbrella for so many things that I think John would be extremely proud of. I think he would want to have been an instructor on the faculty, come in and lecture, but to get so many people from the Institute family participating and being a part of this is tremendous, and now when... You know, it's always bothered me that when you put in the term global leadership under Chrome, or Safari, or whatever your preferred search engine is, all that comes up for the most part is business. How do be a better business leader globally, business strategies, or strategies for running a global market, but very little, very, very little comes up on how can you be a global leader. I'm often asked what was the sauce that... How did John approach things?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=662.0,726.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And although I think I've come up with something that others who have heard it now said, \"Yeah, that's kind of interesting,\" we now are looking at a certificate of global leadership that's being created at the college under LCWA, which I think is very exciting, because not only will it examine global leadership, but it will be open to the entire college. Not just the school, or the international scholars or global ambassadors, who are fabulous, but anybody can look at that, and having certificates like that on your resume is a good thing, and it makes you think globally, and they have such a commitment to language and international studies. It's a good fit. So, I can't think President Hsu and Tim Johnson, the dean, and Hilton, and others, Hilton Smith, who helped in sort of getting that going. I think it's really important.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=726.0,780.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah. Well, I have to ask now, what's the sauce? What do you think set John apart in such an extraordinary way and is it something that's replicable?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=780.0,793.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KAREN MROZ\n\nI think it's something that should be studied and I think it's something that can be embraced and improved upon by someone who takes up the challenge to look at it. John Hurley, who was a member of the board of directors, wonderful guy, I just happened to see him in Washington and ran the idea past him, and I think he sort of agreed with it. But you know, I have so many people who write to me and say, \"What would John say about the Ukraine? How would he approach it?\" And the answer is none of us know. We can guess. But one of the things that I started to think about as we walked down memory lane in so many different ways, what did he do? Or what was his thinking? His father was a dentist, so I will give his dad a little it of the medical analysis credit here, but I think as I thought back on so many different things, he really started... He was a great listener. He was an extraordinary listener. And he would take notes constantly. Very much a kinesthetic, visual and a kinesthetic learner. Auditory, I'm not so sure at times. Maybe not so at home. I used to kid him and say, \"We'll excuse you on the basis of that.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=793.0,867.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But the sauce or the technique is he would apply that learning as a doctor. You know, when you go in a doctor's office and the doctor is sort of looking at you and saying, \"What's the issue?\" And they'll start to look at the symptoms and look at the individual. They'll look at all the medical, what the components are, and then they'll give you a prescription. But then they'll work closely with you, hopefully, and they'll change that prescription, or they may see new symptoms differently, and then they start to call in their team of experts. And things change, and then the prescription changes, and then the team changes, and I think that was very much John. You know, he was constantly ever listening. What are the new symptoms? How can I relate these symptoms to different issues? What's unique about this disease? Diseases change all the time. You're always looking for the cure. It's not always easy to find. You don't always hit the right prescriptions. But the team becomes very important.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=867.0,926.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think that was what John did, was he applied that medical approach. We hear a lot about siloed thinking, and silos in business, and silos in medicine, and when John was ill I always used to say to the doctors, \"If I could just get the oncologist to sit with the gastro guy, this guy, and that guy,\" but they work in silos. And it's very hard to do that. So, I was saying to someone last week as a matter of fact, if I could draw a political cartoon about John and about this sauce, it would be a series of silos, be they nation states or individuals, with bridges around. Label the silos and then John would be running between all the silos, taking in the symptoms, readjusting the prescription, looking at the diagnostic team and how to change that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=926.0,979.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But he then layered over that an extraordinary entrepreneurial approach. He never, and John was also saying he traveled with, John Hurley, saying he traveled with John Mroz on many occasion, and this is probably the underlying, underpinning of all of it, is building trust. And a doctor builds trust with patient. Because if you don't trust your doctor, you're going to change your doctor. But you also trust to whom your doctor sends you and they build the additional trust as part of the team. Underlying it all for John was trust. And John Hurley was saying he watched him walk in a room with a crisis or situation and within a short time he'd build a level of trust and that level of trust, the guy would say, \"Okay, here. Go use my name. Reach out to this person. Reach out to this person.\" And I think that's a big part of it so that you're constantly building that layer of trust. You're uniting, you're diagnosing, you're prescribing, but you're always building the layer of trust.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=979.0,1042.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And part of that goes back to what he did when he first started the Institute, which was he didn't go to the heads of state. He went to the people who had the ear of the heads of state as their advisors and then one layer down so that there was somebody who could, when they would push back, they would say, \"Oh yeah. We know Mroz and the EastWest Institute. They're very trustworthy. They know how to put you in touch with experts that you could trust.\" So, trust was an essential part of that team of diagnosticians, that's a word, and ever changing team, just constantly build that trust factor. And that was something that wasn't just about giving your word, it was trusting the introductions would be safe, secure, the right people, and in the last few years I think we've needed that more than ever before, particularly in the previous administration where people didn't know who to turn to in the traditional channels for advice, and secure advice, and how do we build a case? How do we help to move things forward.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=1042.0,1112.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's a long recipe-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=1112.0,1113.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nThat's really great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=1113.0,1114.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KAREN MROZ\n\nBut I think that's what he would have done.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=1114.0,1119.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nWhat are you proudest of with respect to the accomplishments of the Institute over the course of its existence as an independent organization?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=1119.0,1131.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KAREN MROZ \n\nI think I have to say professionally I'm very proud of the role that John played, and the creativity, and the strategy, and the accomplishments, many of which are not even known through the years. I'm very proud of the network of the Institute family and how it continues today without John and without the Institute. I know, for example, of a number of people that are working on the Ukraine situation that are Institute folks that have that camaraderie, that pick up the phone and call one another. I think I'm very proud of the fact that whenever I meet someone who knew the Institute well or intimately, the things that they relay to me that I had no idea even happened, and I knew a lot about the Institute. There's a fondness for what the Institute did for them personally and what they did for their country, their region, the situation that took place. There are so many accomplishments.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=1131.0,1207.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think, and John really gets a lot of credit for this, no matter what the situation was, they adapted to new situations. He drove the staff crazy coming back and saying, \"Okay, we're going to move onto this.\" It's like, \"But we have all of this.\" And he really was good at doing that. So many Institutes folded when the Berlin Wall fell, when the Iron Curtain fell. He adapted to that and then got involved in how to help with setting up new democracies. For me, I think on the Middle East side in the very beginning, while we didn't accomplish what we wanted to accomplish in terms of bringing recognition to the region, it was one of those many instances that got this close but not quite grabbed it. I'm really proud of the work that was done at that period of time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=1207.0,1262.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think if I really stop for a second, one of the things I'm very proud of is the foundational learning that so many people today who have secured very, very senior positions institutionally in states, nation states, business, non-government, the careers that it launched, and that goes back to the family, the network, which is still there today. We had the first alumni gathering when we had a meeting in Paris of the board, and because it was in Europe, we had so many who came. It was close proximity for many to come. And they talked about what they had done since they left the Institute. It was remarkable. I mean, everything from other institutions that were established, the growth of those institutions. Somebody'd written a book. Somebody was on Oprah about the work that they had done in developing democracies, and the book, in Nepal or whatever it was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=1262.0,1330.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Just some tremendous individual and collective accomplishments that were... It's hard to pick one thing, but I think it would be the family and the network that still goes on and helps in situations like Ukraine, where we desperately need help.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=1330.0,1347.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nI've never asked you this question before, but it just occurred to me. Do you think it would be possible to have something like the EastWest Institute in the present day? The world has changed a lot, but as you've mentioned, it seems like we need this kind of work more than ever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=1347.0,1364.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KAREN MROZ\n\nYeah. I think I'd have to say is it needed, yes. More than ever. And I've had this conversation with a couple folks who I have the highest regard for that the way it was set up in the beginning of getting those trusted advisors to the advisor, et cetera, is more needed today than it's been since the beginning of the Institute. If the Institute was operating the way that John... And it's hard, because he was so unique, and it's hard to find somebody to do that pivotal work that he did. He was just very unique in doing that. What I think would be the most difficult would be if you were looking at starting another EastWest Institute, finding an Ira Wallach, who would trust that if I gave you a million dollars a year for five years, what could you do? You need that kind of investment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=1364.0,1420.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And people aren't writing checks like they used to write checks. They can, but I don't think that they have that trust in an organization, and our focus is on cyber, on technology, on all these different things. Without the foundational work of nations together, or nations working with their nation state folks, working together, and I think that's maybe lost a little bit generationally, but is it needed? Oh, yeah. Could it start again? That would be tough. I don't know that we have the sauce, or the recipe, or the person to fulfill. There's somebody out there. And that's why for me, it's so important to invest in the next generations to come, because you don't know where they are. I've met some extraordinary young people at the College of Charleston. They're all over the colleges and universities worldwide.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=1420.0,1476.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When I was at the Goldman Sachs Foundation, part of what I did was work with the brightest 100 kids, rising juniors, and they were the most amazing young people I've ever met, and have followed some of them, and today they're in stellar positions. So, there's another John Mroz out there to some extent, but I think it would be hard to start it again. You need and Ira and John combination and that was extraordinary.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=1476.0,1509.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nWell, it gives all the more importance to the mission, I think, of the College of Charleston too, to not just educate the next generation, but also to bring the story of the Institute out to the world.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=1509.0,1520.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KAREN MROZ\n\nThanks to you and the team at the College of Charleston, the oral histories I think help very much to get an idea, or to be hopefully inspired. Enjoy them and see what you can do yourself. One person helping... I once did a dinner with the Institute and we did the Power of One, and one of the people who was awarded was an Austrian woman who did a remarkable thing about getting on, going to the army, and getting these popup house units with solar for lighting, et cetera, and she just would stop along a train route wherever she was going, and unload these, and help people, and it was just incredible when you sat and talked to somebody. We had a woman who was a very senior woman at Goldman Sachs and we said, \"How do you do it?\" And she said, \"Well, I work with them and I create and show the results of this investment or whatever.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=1520.0,1585.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then we had Frances Hesselbein, who was head of the Drucker Foundation, and she said, \"Well, I bring the best team together, because the team can sell it better than I can sell it.\" And then we turned to this one woman from Austria and she said, \"I just go right through them. Right through them. Bust the rock. Go through them. Carry dynamite. Go through them. That's it. Get the mission accomplished.\" But each one of these women had done their own thing and remarkably broken glass ceilings, et cetera, and I think there's no sense in the people like that that I've seen succeed that has a sense of entitlement. The minute they do, they're doomed. John didn't feel entitled to anything. He felt accomplished. He used to say that my job was to mute his excesses or kick the pedestal out from underneath him. Not sure how well I did on it, but it's not about the person, it's about what you accomplish, et cetera.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=1585.0,1645.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm hoping through all of this there'll be some inspiration out there. I'm sure there will be.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=1645.0,1649.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nWonderful. That's a great place to end. Thank you so much, Karen, for your time -","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=1649.0,1654.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KAREN MROZ\n\nThank you Emily, for everything you've done.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=1654.0,1656.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061/transcript/41546/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nAbsolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85861/file/174061#t=1656.0,1657.12"}]}]}]}