{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/vx05x26s36/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Joseph Nye, December 13, 2022"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2022-12-13 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewer"]},"value":{"en":["Scott, Blake"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewee"]},"value":{"en":["Nye, Joseph"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eIn this interview, Joseph Nye recalls some of his early inspirations for starting a career in international relations and how his academic work intersected with and supported his diplomatic efforts, including with the East-West Institute. Born in 1937 in South Orange, New Jersey, Nye attended Princeton University as an undergraduate before winning a Rhodes Scholarship. It was at Oxford, meeting students from around the world and particularly the decolonizing countries, that Nye began to develop his research interests. In 1964, he earned his PhD in Political Science from Harvard University, where he also began his career as professor of government (1964-1995). Professor Nye is the author of numerous books, including The Future of Power, The Power Game: A Washington Novel, and Do Morals Matters? He is a fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, the British Academy, and the American Academy of Diplomacy. He has also served as Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs, Chair of the National Intelligence Council, and a Deputy Under Secretary of State, and won distinguished service awards from all three US agencies. In a recent survey of international relations scholars, he was ranked as the most influential scholar on American foreign policy, and in 2011, Foreign Policy named him one of the top 100 Global Thinkers. \u003c/p\u003e (abstract)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Contributing Institution"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright © College of Charleston"]}},{"label":{"en":["Media Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral History"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Personal or Corporate"]},"value":{"en":["Clinton, Bill","EastWest Institute","Harvard University","Mroz, John Edwin","Nye, Joseph S."]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Topical"]},"value":{"en":["Cold War","Geopolitics","Political science","Soft power (Political science)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Geographic"]},"value":{"en":["Europe, Central","Europe, Eastern","Russia"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type IMT"]},"value":{"en":["audio/m4a"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright © College of Charleston\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date Digital"]},"value":{"en":["2023-03-07"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eIn this interview, Joseph Nye recalls some of his early inspirations for starting a career in international relations and how his academic work intersected with and supported his diplomatic efforts, including with the East-West Institute. Born in 1937 in South Orange, New Jersey, Nye attended Princeton University as an undergraduate before winning a Rhodes Scholarship. It was at Oxford, meeting students from around the world and particularly the decolonizing countries, that Nye began to develop his research interests. In 1964, he earned his PhD in Political Science from Harvard University, where he also began his career as professor of government (1964-1995). Professor Nye is the author of numerous books, including The Future of Power, The Power Game: A Washington Novel, and Do Morals Matters? He is a fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, the British Academy, and the American Academy of Diplomacy. He has also served as Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs, Chair of the National Intelligence Council, and a Deputy Under Secretary of State, and won distinguished service awards from all three US agencies. In a recent survey of international relations scholars, he was ranked as the most influential scholar on American foreign policy, and in 2011, Foreign Policy named him one of the top 100 Global Thinkers.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright \u0026copy; College of Charleston\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Nye_Joseph_Dec2022.m4a"]},"duration":1244.96,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-cofc.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/174/055/original/Nye_Joseph_Dec2022.m4a?1674673538","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mp3","duration":1244.96,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Transcript of Interview with Joseph Nye, December 13, 2022 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nOkay, we're recording.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=3.0,5.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOSEPH NYE\n\nOkay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=5.0,5.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nGood afternoon. My name is Blake Scott. The date of this interview is December 13th, 2022, and the name of this project is the EWI Society Oral History Project. To start, could you tell us your full name, date of birth, and place of birth?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=5.0,20.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOSEPH NYE\n\nJoseph S. Nye Jr. I was born on January 19th, 1937, in South Orange, New Jersey.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=20.0,31.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nThank you. And to get started, I was hoping you could tell us how you first became interested in international relations. Were there experiences growing up or in school that stand out that shaped your commitments?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=31.0,44.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOSEPH NYE\n\nWell, I think probably one of the strongest influences is when I won a Rhodes Scholarship to Oxford, and made friends with a Ghanaian student, and we talked a lot about how Africa was becoming independent, whether it would create new types of societies and so forth, and I decided I wanted to go see for myself. So I went to Harvard after Oxford, and in developing my PhD research project, I decided to do it in East Africa. So we lived for a year and a half in Uganda, Kenya, in tents. The topic I wrote about was whether the East African countries could keep a common market among them that the British had created. And that led me to another study following up, which is a common market in Central America, and then studying the European common market, and so forth. So I came to international relations through the back door, so to speak, not as a theorist of international relations, but on looking at practical ways in which states cooperated in the economic area.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=44.0,124.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nSo what year was it that you started your Rhodes Scholarship?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=124.0,128.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOSEPH NYE\n\nI went to Oxford in '58, came back in '60.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=128.0,133.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nAnd was that focused on political science?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=133.0,137.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOSEPH NYE\n\nI did philosophy, politics and economics.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=137.0,140.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nOkay. And growing up in the 1950s and in the 1940s, what were some of the issues of the time that you were interested in?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=140.0,150.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOSEPH NYE\n\nWell, at that time, it was very much the heart of the Cold War, and so many of the issues were related to the questions about the Soviet Union, and threats of communism, and so forth. And in particular, there was the Korean War in 1950, where you could follow the progress of American troops up and down the Korean Peninsula in daily maps. And then when I was at Oxford in 1959, I went with two other American students and toured Russia, or Soviet Union as it then was, and that was [the} very early stage of going into Russia or Soviet Union at that time. And then subsequently, I've spent time abroad. I've spent a year in Geneva as the Carnegie Endowment Visiting Professor at the Graduate Institute of International Affairs, I've spent a term at Chatham House in London doing research, I lived in Central America when I was doing the studies there, so I wound up spending more time on international affairs than I ever thought of when I was an undergraduate.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=150.0,243.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nAnd I'm just trying to understand your motivations. Would you say this was pure curiosity? Or were you trying to engage something with US foreign policy? What were you thinking about at the time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=243.0,257.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOSEPH NYE\n\nIt was more intellectual curiosity, I think, because when I was an undergraduate at Princeton, I had focused primarily on domestic affairs, and written a thesis on entrepreneurship. So I really hadn't demonstrated a great interest in international affairs, but I think the path I described of sort of an awakening interest that came from being a student at Oxford is probably the best explanation. It piqued my curiosity, and one of the effects of it is I got to watch two countries become independent, Uganda and Kenya. So it's like seeing 1776 twice.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=257.0,301.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nRevolt was in the air…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=301.0,302.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOSEPH NYE\n\nYep.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=302.0,304.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nCould you help us understand... You've done so many things in your career in terms of research, but how do you go from research on pan-Africanism, to nuclear issues, to questions of U.S. foreign policy, and most notably, or one of the more notable topics, soft power. Could you… ?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=304.0,325.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOSEPH NYE\n\nWell it's a  path, and people say, \"What do these have to do with each other?\" To me, one thing leads to another in a logic of curiosity. When I was studying the relations of three East African countries, I became interested in this question of the relationship of politics and economics, and how that could change a country's relations. That then led me to Central America, that in turn led me to Europe, and that led me to international trade, and international trade led me to illicit international trade, for example, in nuclear materials, led me to the proliferation of nuclear weapons, which in turn led me to worrying about nuclear war. And I spent much of the 80s worrying about nuclear war after dealing with nuclear proliferation in the Carter Administration. And that then led to curiosity in the late 80s to what was happening to the Soviet Union, and what was happening to American power.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=325.0,402.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There was a widespread view that the United States was in decline, and as I looked at the various sources of American power, I felt that the military and economic power, we were doing all right, but there was still something missing, and that was our ability to attract others. And I called that soft power. And then having written about that, I went back into the Clinton Administration, and that led to an interest in the rise of China, the role of Japan, and the East Asian balance of power. And that led to a broader concern about American foreign policy. But through that, you'll see a thread which is trying to understand power, in the different forms of power, and particularly the relationship between economic power, military power, and soft power, attractive power.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=402.0,470.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nThank you. I'm curious, and I think listeners will be curious, what was the initial point that you went from academia  into positions of government and actually shaping these policies? When did that start for you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=470.0,487.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOSEPH NYE\n\nWell, I was 40 years old, and Cyrus Vance, who was then the Secretary of State, or was about to become Secretary of State for Jimmy Carter, asked me if I would work on organizing Carter's non-proliferation policy. So I took a two-year leave of absence from Harvard, and was a deputy under Secretary of State in the State Department. And then I went back to Harvard and wrote a book called Nuclear Ethics, trying to think through the ethical implications of nuclear weapons, and then that led me to thinking about a lot of issues related to nuclear-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=487.0,548.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nYou maybe lost your connection.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=548.0,554.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOSEPH NYE\n\n... The Clinton Administration, then came back to Harvard to become Dean of the Kennedy School of Government, which I did for eight and a half years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=554.0,566.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nCould you help us understand, what did you feel… were some of the ways that academia prepared you for these positions in government?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=566.0,575.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOSEPH NYE\n\nWell, writing in academia, in the 70s, I wrote about power and interdependence with Robert Keohane. I also wrote about transnational relations and transgovernmental relations. And when you're in government, you don't have time for these thoughts, but you're spending intellectual capital that you accumulated while you were [in academia] [inaudible]. Similarly, in the 90s, ideas that I thought about of soft power and how it relates to military power and economic power, helped me to lay the framework for what was called the NAI initiative, which revived the relationship, and also the East Asian Strategy report, for how we're going to deal with the rise of China. So the ideas that I used while in government were incubated, if you want, during my periods in academia, but when you're in government, you don't have time [inaudible] you're responding.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=575.0,654.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nNow, thinking of the intersection between government and academia, I feel like this might be a good moment for questions about the EastWest Institute. Could you tell us how you first were introduced to the EastWest Institute, and how that relationship started?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=654.0,673.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOSEPH NYE\n\nYou're relying on an 86-year-old memory, and there's a lot of detail that I've forgotten, but somehow John Mroz got my name and asked me... Maybe from reading things I'd written, or maybe we were introduced at an event or something, I don't remember that detail. But he asked me to come to conferences and sessions, then he asked me to be on a board, and then in the early 80s, he asked me to co-chair a special study on relations between the U.S. and the Soviet Union. We brought out a report that even got on the front page of the New York Times.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=673.0,719.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I stayed involved with the institute as a board member over the years. I was a great admirer of John’s. He was a social policy entrepreneur. John ran with ideas and created institutions and relationships, which people thought would be impossible. Such as US Soviet relations that they did, during the Cold War. And so I felt very strongly that he was doing the Lord's work, so to speak, and I wanted to be as helpful to him as I could. And that's why I stayed on his board for, I can't even remember how many years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=719.0,768.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nAnd to summarize a little bit, what was the mission of EWI, and how did it intersect with your own particular interests?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=768.0,777.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOSEPH NYE\n\nWell as I understood what John was trying to accomplish, was to create, if you want, track two diplomacy, where people who were able to communicate with governments back home, but were officials, and therefore they were disavowable, could explore ideas. And during the Cold War, that was extremely important to develop these transnational relations and communications through the type of track two diplomacy that John was developing. So I felt that what he was trying to do made very good sense in terms of what I had spent time writing about. Also, what I dealt with when I was in government.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=777.0,828.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nIt's a version of soft power as track two diplomacy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=828.0,832.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOSEPH NYE\n\nYeah, it creates... Soft power is the ability to get what you want through attraction. So the extent to which the contacts led to attraction, then they produced soft power.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=832.0,848.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nCould you offer an example where you were involved with EWI that felt like a space of track II diplomacy as soft power? What did that interaction look like, and who was there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=848.0,862.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOSEPH NYE\n\nWell, this is where you're testing the details of my memory. I can remember a number of meetings where we met with Russians and had discussions that would've been difficult to have in other settings. I remember one in Helsinki in particular, but trying to pin down all the meetings and the players and so forth, I'd have to spend years going back and try to reshuffle my papers to be able to do that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=862.0,906.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nUnderstand. We'll leave that to the future archivist, maybe. A more general question, then. I know you were very much involved in government and issues as the Cold War was coming to an end, what were your hopes or interpretations of the thawing of the Cold War and the end of the Soviet Union at that time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=906.0,934.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOSEPH NYE\n\nWell, I think we had a lot more optimism than we would have today, or one would have today. With my colleagues at Harvard, I'd been involved in something that was called the Avoiding Nuclear War Project, which was supported by David Hamburg and the Carnegie Corporation. And we had published a book in, I think it was '87 or '88, it was before the wall came down, called Faithful Visions. And it was different chapters of what the future might look like. And one was a chapter in which politics in the Soviet Union change, and that changes the nuclear relationship. And it looked in the early 90s as though that was happening, and that was coming true. Obviously it didn't. And I've spent many hours trying to figure out what happened, or why it didn't work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=934.0,1007.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"People were arguing it was because of plans to enlarge NATO, I think that's too simple. I think the real basic problem was that after six or seven decades of a centrally planned economy controlled by a communist party, the opening up of Russia to a market economy in efforts to build democracy, they just weren't ready. The sociological and cultural basis for that hadn't occurred. In addition to that, Yeltsin had increasing problems of poor health, and the privatization went rapidly and led to rampant corruption as private oligarchs took over formerly state hailed industries. And there was a great deal of disillusionment by the end of the 90s, and it was in those circumstances that Yeltsin turned to Putin to protect his family and his stakes. And Putin, as a former KGB operative who always regretted the demise of the Soviet Union, has gone on to do what you've seen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=1007.0,1092.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nYou do have to be somewhere at 3:30, you said?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=1092.0,1095.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOSEPH NYE\n\nYes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=1095.0,1096.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nWell, I'll ask one final question then. What advice would you offer to someone in college or graduate school interested in a career in international relations? What steps or things should they be thinking about or engaging?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=1096.0,1111.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOSEPH NYE\n\nWell, one thing is to read widely. A second is in the field, to try to understand other societies and other cultures and history, how states have related to each other and the mistakes that have been made in the past. A second is to spend some time abroad, and realize that the world looks very different when you're with people who are not fellow Americans. America looks different if you're in a conversation with people who are not fellow Americans, or that goes for any nationality. So in that sense, read history and spend time abroad and work on a foreign language. You don't have to be a great linguist, but understanding the structure of thought, and reading somewhat in a foreign language, gives you an idea of how the world looks, that's different from what you see when you just read English and English literature. So those are the three things I would urge in exactly that order.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=1111.0,1190.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nThank you. Any final remarks or anything you'd like to add before we...\n\nJOSEPH NYE","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=1190.0,1195.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, I just want to say that I'm delighted that you're doing this, because I was a great fan of John Mroz. He was a kind of human being who had an eternal optimism, and was willing to make efforts to try to bring things out to make the world a better place. And in a small way, he did. And even his great dreams weren't fulfilled in the sense, if you look at Putin's actions today. Nonetheless, you've got to give John credit for the efforts he made. So I wanted to end with a tribute for John.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=1195.0,1239.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nI appreciate that. Thank you for your time this afternoon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=1239.0,1242.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055/transcript/42554/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JOSEPH NYE\n\nWell, thank you, and good luck with your project.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85855/file/174055#t=1242.0,1244.96"}]}]}]}