{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/ws8hd7r05r/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Oral history interview with Kamau Pope"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2/25/22"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["Born in Augusta, Georgia, Kamau Pope attended the College of Charleston and later Duke University. In Charleston Pope became active social justice organizations including Black Lives Matter Charleston, Southerners on New Ground and SPECTRA."]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright © Avery Research Center for African American History and Culture."]}},{"label":{"en":["Access Note"]},"value":{"en":["For more information contact the Avery Research Center for African American History and Culture, 125 Bull Street, Charleston, SC 29424."]}},{"label":{"en":["Access Statement"]},"value":{"en":["All rights reserved."]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewee"]},"value":{"en":["Pope, Kamau"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewer"]},"value":{"en":["Brown, Millicent E., 1948-"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Topical"]},"value":{"en":["African Americans","Political activists","Gender Identity","Non-binary people","LGBT activism","Transgender people","Activism","Political participation","Community organization","Social movements"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Personal or Corporate"]},"value":{"en":["Southerners on New Ground (Charleston, S.C.) (Atlanta, Ga.)","International Longshoreman's Association","National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (Charleston, S.C.)","Black Lives Matter Charleston (Charleston, S.C.)","Girls Rock Charleston (Charleston, S.C.)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Geographic"]},"value":{"en":["Charleston (S.C.)","North Charleston (S.C.)","Aiken (S.C.)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Geographic County"]},"value":{"en":["Charleston County (S.C.)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Contributing Institution"]},"value":{"en":["Avery Research Center at the College of Charleston"]}},{"label":{"en":["Media Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral Histories"]}},{"label":{"en":["Resource Locator"]},"value":{"en":["AMN 1168.001.022"]}},{"label":{"en":["Digitization Specifications"]},"value":{"en":["Mp4 derivative audio and video created using Davinci Resolve. Archival masters are all mp4 files."]}},{"label":{"en":["Date Digital"]},"value":{"en":["2022"]}}],"summary":{"en":["Born in Augusta, Georgia, Kamau Pope attended the College of Charleston and later Duke University. In Charleston Pope became active social justice organizations including Black Lives Matter Charleston, Southerners on New Ground and SPECTRA."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["Copyright © Avery Research Center for African American History and Culture."]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/298/973/small/open-uri20251217-4125201-r2lsx_1766000687.jpg?1766000689","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - open-uri20251217-4125201-r2lsx.mp4"]},"duration":3221.908,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/298/973/small/open-uri20251217-4125201-r2lsx_1766000687.jpg?1766000689","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-cofc.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/298/973/original/open-uri20251217-4125201-r2lsx.mp4?1766000685","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":3221.908,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["DTA Interview - Kamau Pope - Edited Transcript.docx [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nI'm going to ask you again just to give us your full name.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=8.0,13.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nAwesome. My name is Ansley Kamau Pope. When I was in Charleston, everyone knew me as Ansley, but most people knew me as Pope.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=13.0,23.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nOh, okay. What do you want to be called today? What do you go by? What's your favorite?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=23.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nPope is perfectly fine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=30.0,32.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nOh, okay. That's interesting. Okay. And can you tell us where you were born or where you spent your earliest formative years?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=32.0,41.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYes. I was born in Augusta, Georgia, but a lot of my early years in life was along dirt roads in Kathwood, South Carolina, which is very close to Aiken, South Carolina. So I'm from Aiken.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=41.0,59.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nOkay. You call Aiken home. ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=59.0,61.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=61.0,61.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYes. MILLICENT BROWN\n\nThe area you said was Kathwood?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=61.0,64.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYes, Kathwood. It's just a mile of a dirt road. And I feel like a lot of my formative years were learned there going to church with my mom and my dad and going to my grandparents' house, and experiencing the way folks make a way. So that's why I always name Kathwood as a place for me as well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=64.0,88.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nYeah, good for you. Remind people about that. Yeah. And then again, for the record, do you bear a title? Or how do you describe yourself in what you're doing?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=88.0,101.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYeah. I am currently a graduate student at Duke University. So I'm currently in Durham, North Carolina right now. I always tell folks that I'm a dirt road academic because I feel like some of the lessons, as I've explained, some of the best lessons I've learned have been on front porches and dirt roads. And I think that I try to create work that is accessible and easy for folks no matter where they come from to understand.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=101.0,131.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nGreat. What's your field of study?\n\n\n\nAnsley Kamau Pope (","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=131.0,134.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"): History.\n\n\nMillicent Brown (","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=134.0,135.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"): Okay. U.S. history?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=135.0,139.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nU.S. history specifically in the U.S. South. I study social movements and activists’ relationship to land, to their bodies, to their spirits and to the movement work they do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=139.0,151.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nOkay. We're going to have to have some conversations one on one I think after that, because that too was pretty much what I majored in.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=151.0,159.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=159.0,161.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nYou know that this project was designed to capture a lot of the energy and personalities and activities that were going on in Charleston within a fairly defined time period. We've talked about Darnell [Denzell Curnell]... Oh, gosh. Cornell?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=161.0,187.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER 3\n\nYeah. Curnell.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=187.0,190.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nI'm sorry, I'm blocking on that name. The young man whose death preceded Walter Scott's and then as a general timeframe for beginning. And then we're talking about activities that go all the way through the\n\nEmanuel massacre. But still, it's not hard and fast. What we're trying to get at what the energies of the people were, especially young people who stepped forward, got involved, had their voices heard. And so this project really does serve as an important documentation of what was going on. And we just are delighted that you're willing to share a little bit of that with us. So I guess I should start by saying given that timeframe, when is it that you come to the Charleston area?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=190.0,260.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nMm-hmm (affirmative). I came to Charleston in August 2012. I came as a freshman at the College of Charleston assuming I was going to be a music major, but that definitely changed as I got deeper into some of the activities and some of the different things that I saw and witnessed in the community.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=260.0,286.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nOkay. So school is what brought you here? ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=286.0,293.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=293.0,293.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYes. MILLICENT BROWN\n\nI have to ask, why C of C?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=293.0,300.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nI think for me, it was a college that was in-state and I knew that cost was an important factor with choosing what school I go to. And I also think as someone who is both queer and trans, I felt like it was a space that was liberal enough for me to breathe and exist and grow into my own understanding of myself. Granted I didn't have the language for that when I was 18, but it definitely was a place that I felt like I could get a semblance of having some roots.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=300.0,338.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nI really - and I am a native Charlestonian by the way, and a graduate of College of Charleston coincidentally - I'm really going to ask you to examine why you thought that level of comfort was to be found at the College of Charleston. I mean was it people that you knew? How did you decide that this was a place that you thought could be a comfortable environment?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=338.0,370.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYeah. So when I was accepted to the college, I really applied to the college because of this program called the Bonner Leader Program. It's a four-year leadership program that participants work with local nonprofits in the area to build their own leadership skills. They pick a nonprofit that they're really passionate about working with. And it felt like a cohort and a collective of people that teach you about social justice issues, engage in dialogues around the community, but also internationally and domestically. And I felt like knowing people who had went through that program, I felt as though it was something in a type of family that I needed being away from home for the first time. So it felt like a space where I could grow in my own education, but also engage in College of Charleston and the community around me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=370.0,441.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nAnd I felt like being a liberal arts institution, I felt like there was a lot of flexibility for me to lean into different topics and academic departments that I was interested in. So naively, my 18-year-old self was like, \"Oh, Charleston makes sense. It's a good place. It's near the coast.\" So naively, and I was definitely challenged as I stepped foot in Charleston, but naively never having really been to Charleston before and also having this understanding of this one central program is what drew me to the College of Charleston in particular.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=441.0,484.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nYeah. Yeah. Let me ask, if you don't mind, if you would tell us how badly in need you were of that environment finishing high school in Aiken.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=484.0,505.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nMm-hmm (affirmative).","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=505.0,507.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nYou finished high school in Augusta or Aiken, I'm sorry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=507.0,511.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nActually in Blackville, South Carolina.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=511.0,513.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nOh, okay. Neither one. Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=513.0,516.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=516.0,517.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nSame area, same geographic area. I'm just curious as to were your experiences there such that it really propelled you to like, \"Let me get out of here and find this other environment of acceptance?\" Or through your words, how big a challenge was that for you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=517.0,544.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYes, definitely. So, I came out at the age of 12, and my parents are lovely and amazing churchgoing people, that's where I got my leadership roots. When I go home, I still play drums in my home church. And they weren't prepared to have a kid like me in a lot of ways. And so for me, Charleston was perfect because it was close enough to home, because I love my family and that's my roots, but it was far away enough where I could breathe a little bit. I went to a predominantly Black high school in a small town called Blackville, South Carolina. It has a very, very small population. It's one of the poorest schools and one of the poorest towns in the state. But I felt like something that I gained and appreciated was the close knit community that I was able to form there. My mom was a superintendent, right? So that had its own set of challenges and also opportunities. My mom sat in my classes and it was great in a lot of ways.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=544.0,626.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nIn other words, she kind of protected you, you're saying?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=626.0,630.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYeah. Yeah. She was there all the time. It's a school district with three schools, so you can imagine when she does her site visits, there's the chance she's going to show up in my French class, right? So I definitely wanted to have that small school feel and I knew that College of Charleston would offer me that a little bit more than Clemson or USC (University of South Carolina) would. So I also was drawn to how small the school seemed, in comparison to some of the other options in-state. And so I think to answer your question, I think I was trying to both keep a sense of arm’s reach from what I knew of Aiken, of Blackville, of my family, but still feel far away enough where I felt like I could establish a new community, a new home of people in a way that felt safe because I knew that okay, if things aren't right in Charleston, I can just drive back home two and a half hours to my home, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=630.0,699.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nWhich I did my freshman year. I literally went home every weekend. So, I think that I had to grow a lot in that. But my vision of Charleston definitely did change over time, which I'm sure we'll get into.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=699.0,716.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nYeah, I'm sure we will. Why don't we start with what were the first connections maybe that you did finally make on campus? Were they with student activists? Were they with folks in the LGBTQ community? I mean, what gave you that first sense of comfort and support?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=716.0,750.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nMm-hmm (affirmative). I think it took a while. I feel like I bounced around in different groups of folks. Bonner definitely stayed a foundation for me. I broke my foot my freshman year and so I couldn't walk, so you can imagine trying to have your orthopedic leg scooter on all the brick, and the roots coming, it was a lot. But I found a lot of support in that group. But I think that the first time I was able to see my people and have a deep rooted sense was when I met Alison Piepmeier and when I met Laura Mewbourn, both of whom - Alison was a faculty member on campus with the Women's and Gender Studies Program and Laura was a staff member who supported the Bonner Leader Program. And I'll say that those two, those two folks helped ground me and helped me see my people in a way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=750.0,828.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nOkay. “My people,” you're leaving me open now. When you say, \"my people,\" who are you talking about?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=828.0,837.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYes. I think it was the first time that I was able to see examples, granted they are white women, but it was the first time I was able to see examples of both the intersections of Black and queer folks in an arm's reach, right, because even though they weren't, they knew people, right? And so it was the first time for me to say, \"Oh, there are folks here who have lived experiences similar to mine,\" and I'd never seen that growing up. And so it was eye-opening for me to witness that through them and through the education that they gave me, both in the context of Charleston, but also broadly the South.\n\n\n\nMillicent Brown ( ): Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=837.0,887.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"): Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=887.0,887.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"): Okay. ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nMm-hmm (affirmative).","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=887.0,888.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nLet's examine the Black part first. It's a predominantly white institution, for sure, in a decidedly Afrocentric city.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=888.0,901.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=901.0,903.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nYou're coming, you said from a predominantly Black high school. So, tell us a little bit about your racial identity at this point. I mean, has that been an issue growing up in that church? Is there a political bent to your background as far as the being African American?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=903.0,930.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nMm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. I think as I said, some of the first lessons I learned around dirt roads that had Confederate flags hanging on people's homes, and conversations and dialogue with my mom about the oppression that Black folks face, but also the resilience that we have and the ways in which we've been able to challenge some of the systems that are operating still, right? I think that it was something that wasn't often talked about growing up. So when I went to Charleston of all places, I was not prepared at all. I think that the great thing about - I keep bringing up Bonner, but the great thing about it is that the majority of Bonners and the Bonner Leader Program are Black. When I was there, it was about 30 or 40% Black folks in that space, and it was like 20 of us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=930.0,991.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nSo it was a lot of Black folks, there were a lot of Black queer folks. And so I think that as I understood Charleston a bit more and learned about the history of the city and being surrounded by all of these white folks and having to now be a mouthpiece of the Black experience I was definitely not used to. I did not have that experience or have to go through that in high school. And so that was definitely a shift, right? My first English class, I'll never forget, it was me and I think her name's Destiny, we went through SPECTRA together. So I went through SPECTRA, right? So, at SPECTRA, it's basically the summer before, they have Black low-income folks come to take classes together, right? So that was there that I met Patricia Lessane, right? So I was able to feel like I had... Debbie Counts.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=991.0,1049.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nI was able to feel like I had people, Black folks and Black women in particular, who were able to support and guide me in some of the instances that I felt in class of why am I the mouthpiece for Black folks?\n\nHow do I navigate this? And just being able to sit in their offices and complain, or be upset, or cry sometimes was really important.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1049.0,1079.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nI can't help but be a little surprised. I mean I'm surprised that your story isn't perhaps a little bit more well known, that the College of Charleston can offer that kind of support. I digress. ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nIt was hard.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1079.0,1098.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nIt was hard.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1098.0,1098.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nIt was hard. MILLICENT BROWN\n\nYeah. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1098.0,1099.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1099.0,1100.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nBut the fact that there were programs like Bonner set up that spoke to your needs, I think that speaks very well. I don't think we hear very much about the Bonner program. So I'm just personally very glad that it was something that was supportive of you. So you've met with Dr. Lessane, who is at the time the Director of the Avery Research Center of African American History and Culture, and you're meeting other faculty people. Tell us about your introduction to other Black activists either on campus or off.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1100.0,1150.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nI think there were a lot of upperclassmen who I witnessed, particularly in I want to say it was 2014. So it took a while, I'll start with that. It took me a while to find Black activists because it took me a while to even grow to understand what community organizing and activism was, right? So I feel like my first two years in Charleston was spent understanding what are the underlying problems that exist and persist in this space. And then after that, what was the incident? When the South Carolina state legislature were upset about the book that was chosen for first-years. They chose the book Fun Home. And I remember sitting down and meeting with Bri Sanders. And Bri was, or is, but at the time, Bri was maybe two years older than me. So, they had been in inner circles of organizing that I hadn't been in, right? So Bri had worked with Girls Rock Charleston and knew all of these different folks and was just this burgeoning young Black activist in the College of Charleston's sphere. So everyone went to Bri for everything.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1150.0,1241.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nIf the megaphone was in your hand, you handed it to Bri. And I think that Bri was the first person I met who was a Black activist who I felt really symbolized a sense of leadership in that way that I hadn't seen. And I think that meeting Bri and then getting ingrained deeper into Girls Rock Charleston, which is a predominantly white organization, but being able to see Bri makes space in that organization and then getting into Southerners On New Ground and meeting folks like Mary Hooks were stepping stones that let me see Black activists and community organizers in Charleston, particularly at College of Charleston because that's where I was insulated at the time, and then also regionally as I got deeper into Girls Rock and then SONG.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1241.0,1242.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nOkay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1242.0,1302.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1302.0,1304.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nKeep talking about that process of growth and exposure. Obviously for the reasons you gave, it's happening at the college. At what points did you find yourself reaching beyond Calhoun Street for people who were not necessarily tied to the college?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1304.0,1332.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYeah. I think for me, that did not happen until 2015. Well no, not 2015, fall of 2014. After Walter Scott's murder, there were a lot of folks that were rallying in the city. And I think that at that point in being in solidarity and I had been doing some organizing work with Girls Rock Charleston leading up to that in summer of 2014. So I guess you could say that was the moment that I stepped out of Calhoun Street and started working with young girls and trans youth. I worked with them, I want to say it was... Yeah, it was the spring of 2014 they started an after-school program at Burke, right? And so I was like okay, I'm understanding Burke High School and the history there, I'm working with a lot of young folks trying to get them to understand social justice issues. And so that was the first time, that was when I was like, \"Oh, there's more to Charleston beyond King Street,\" right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1332.0,1414.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nThere's more to the history of Charleston than just this placard I see at Crest[?], right? So being able to expand and work with Girls Rock and learn how to ride a bike so I could bike around downtown and get to places, was eye opening for me. So we started the afterschool program and then the purpose of Girls Rock, you teach young kids social justice issues, teach them how to play instruments and they get to write really radical songs about whatever they feel, right? So it's an opportunity to give young folks voices when they feel like they don't have one. So if they want to scream a whole song, they can scream\n\nthe whole song, right? And so doing that also connected me with different folks in the community who were recent College of Charleston grads and people who were affiliated with the college, but also understanding and building connections with folks in the broader community.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1414.0,1483.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nSo for example, guest speakers we would have, there were local Black artists, activists, artists that we were able to bring to the space to help young girls make zines, right? And so it was really integral to position myself outside of the College of Charleston. And I think that that summer and then doing summer camp with Girls Rock and then that fall, when Walter... Not Walter Scott, when Michael Brown was murdered, being able to insert myself into a broader protest was pretty easy because I had gotten my footing and understood some of the context beyond the college.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1483.0,1535.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nMm-hmm (affirmative). I am really curious about Burke High School's reception of you. The program you described sounds absolutely fantastic, but you know that you presented yourself as someone not quite the usual community volunteer who comes in. You're talking about social justice issues, you're talking about incorporating the arts and music into this and you're also presenting yourself as queer. Can you just elaborate a little bit on what the responses were to any or all of that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1535.0,1590.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYeah. So I can't take full credit for planting, it was a lot of seed planting and it took some time for us all to get there. A lot of this was done by Elias Lyles, who's still a really good friend of mine and helped me understand mobilizing and organizing and connecting me to folks at SONG. Lyles' built a relationship with a staff member there whose name I'm not remembering, but explained the purpose of Girls Rock, explained the different types of people that would be coming there, right? And folks were just generally receptive. And I think that could have easily been due to a multitude of reasons. I think that at that point, Girls Rock had existed for three or four years. So it was starting to build a reputation in Charleston.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1590.0,1658.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nI think that also the fact that we were open to saying, \"Hey, if there are young girls you want, from Burke, to come to the afterschool program, by all means we would love to have them.\" And so being able to partner in that way was helpful. And from my memory of it as I'm sitting in it, it was such a beautiful space and opportunity to get young folks excited and have a space of joy. And I think that Burke is just a place to do that with all of its history and all of its necessity in the downtown area. But I don't particularly remember any tension. There might have been in some of the backend planning of it, but I wasn't privy to it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1658.0,1724.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nDo you have some estimate of how many young people may have been reached at least in the years that you were involved?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1724.0,1734.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nFor the initial afterschool program, I want to say there were probably about 10 to 15 young folks there. And then in the summer, gosh, there's so many because the age range broadens in the summer. We work with folks from eight all the way to 18. That's such a big range that I would say that there was probably anywhere between 30 and 40 participants. But I think when I think about Girls Rock's impact in Charleston, I think that it was such a good bridge for queer folks, and then as it gets further along, even Black and brown queer folks, to be able to have a space where they can garner and build some sense of political education. I think some of the training that I got through Girls Rock really grounded me as a person. It was the first time I heard Sweet Honey in the Rock.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1734.0,1803.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nMm-hmm (affirmative).","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1803.0,1804.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nThe first time that I got to have a zine and know what a zine is, right? We handed young kids a zine that's called “South Carolina's History of Social Justice”, right? And it talks about everything from the first Memorial Day in Hampton Park to who Septima P. Clarke is, right? And so being able to not only learn, myself, but also engage with young people and get them to understand the space and the significance and weight of the space that we occupy was really important.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1804.0,1844.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nYou mentioned that starting with Girls Rock Charleston, you then got exposed to Southerners On a New Ground, SONG. Might you describe what that is? And then maybe tell us a little bit about how that operated.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1844.0,1865.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYes. So a lot of the political education that was learned through Girls Rock was through a lot of the political education SONG had set forth. So SONG is a regional organization that's queer-centered, but focuses on issues around race, gender, class, sexuality. And the way they work is that it's member based. So members are based all across the south and then they have member hubs. And so one of the hubs was in Charleston. So, by hub, it means that there are two to three member leaders that help build momentum around different issues in the area. So at the time, SONG was leading these Free From Fear campaigns. And our Free From Fear campaign really was centered around racial injustice in Charleston. And Lyles, who I mentioned, was Development Coordinator, Development Director for SONG at the time. And so Lyles was employed by SONG, was doing Girls Rock on a volunteer timely basis.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1865.0,1948.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nNo one was paid for the work we did at Girls Rock, we did it because we love it, which I think is a testament to a lot of the heart that was put in. So through Lyles, I was able to... Lyles recruited me to say, \"Hey, you play instruments. Do you want to work with Girls Rock?\" And so, Lyles pulled me into Girls Rock, saw that I was really interested in social justice and then guided me into SONG work. So it was a process of phases, if you will.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1948.0,1985.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nWhat are some of your activities with SONG? What is happening? And I don't just mean you, but I think people listening to this interview sometime down the road will want to know what impact did you have?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=1985.0,2005.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYeah. So the blending between Girls Rock and SONG pushed us to a particular point in 2015. So I'm trying to think, so it was really after Walter Scott's murder that I just dove right into SONG. Before, it was just dancing around of like, \"Okay, I'll go to this regional conference or I'll meet this person who shows up in Charleston.\" But after Walter Scott's murder, we joined together both Girls Rock and SONG folks to do what was called these “Black brunches”. And so with the connections that SONG had, myself, my good friend, Jasmin Williams, and I sat in the Women's and Gender Studies Office on campus because Alison was like, \"Here's the code, just use it,\" right? She was such a great accomplice to us in the movement in so many ways, one of which was space that we could use. And SONG connected us with folks from this organization called Blackbird, which is run by, or founded by, this person named Mervyn. Mervyn sat with Jas and I and we were talking, you know, “What do we do? We saw this video of this man who was murdered in this horrific way, what do we do?”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=2005.0,2110.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nAnd Mervyn was like, \"Have you all heard about these actions going on in New York and LA called Black brunches?\" And we were like, \"No.\" And he hands me and Jas a script, just a script of an example of a Black brunch. And Jas was really into theater and was excited and was like, \"This makes sense. It's a low- risk action. It's a way we can bring some young folks, our peers and our comrades all together.\" Charleston is such reliant on tourism that really heavily weighs on antebellum sentiment and people aren't consciously thinking about that in relation to how the past is now informing the present with this man who is just murdered in North Charleston. Because everyone in the rhetoric was, \"Oh well that's North Charleston, that's not Charleston,\" right? This, \"Oh, but that's not us,\" which I feel like Charleston always has taken on and appropriated of like, \"Oh, that's Ferguson. That's not us.\" Or \"Oh, that's this and not us.\" And so Jas and I got together, gosh, we got together like 10, 15 people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=2110.0,2185.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nWe reconfigured the script and put in information about Walter Scott, and also Denzel Curnell, and we did our first action at High Cotton. We got together. The Black brunches are relying on having an interracial, multiracial group of folks who are organizing it because there's a section of the script that has white people talking about white silence and how that's violent in and of itself. So we got together a group of multiracial folks and we went to High Cotton. Because of the name and also just because it felt like it was right on Market Street and it felt like it was an appropriate place. And so we had our lovely\n\nwhite cousins pretend that they were trying to plan a wedding, which is hilarious because both of them were very queer. So we had them like, we had this white man and this white woman walk in with fancy brunch clothes gabbing about having a wedding that they were planning and they were trying to get an understanding of the venue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=2185.0,2260.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nWe distract the hostess and all of us just walk in. And the music there was so ominous. It was just this low hum. You felt the weight of the space when you're in there because it just feels weird. I don't like brunches, but it's a place I would never want to go to. And we did the action and no one chanted Black Lives Matter at the end with us, which is to be expected, and we left and we went to Waterfront Park and we just were like, \"Let's just sit here and breathe and see how we feel and check in with each other.\" And we set a meeting and we decided we're going to do it again. So we did the Black brunch two more times. And so-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=2260.0,2326.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nDo you remember the institute, the places that you went to?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=2326.0,2332.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYes. Well, I remember one of them. I know we had one planned, so a lot of us were all collaborating with each other. It was myself, it was Bren, and Princess Hollis, we're all collaborating altogether being like, \"What are we doing?\" For a lot of us, it was our first time organizing in this type of fashion so it was a lot of lessons learned. And one of those lessons is to not tell anyone where you plan on doing a protest the next time. And I think that we thought we were in a shared space of confidence and there was actually an informant that was in the room. Unfortunately, my comrade did not know, said that we were going to do the next brunch at Virginia, Virginia's on King Street on this date. And we go and there's cops there. So we had to leave. We didn't even enter the building. We were like we're not even going to touch it with a 10-foot pole, because again, we wanted it to be low risk because we wanted to engage folks regardless of where they were at.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=2332.0,2413.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nSo we didn't go to Virginia because we went to some hotel and I can't remember the name of it. And they're all on YouTube, weirdly, if you want to add them to the archive. But our last place that we went to was Hominy Grill. And that one felt dangerous enough that it was like okay, these Black brunches have escalated to a point that we should stop. And that was due to a lot of the City Paper press and the way they were writing about us. And so after that, we decided we were going to mobilize closer with SONG and shut down the bridge. So that led us to start planning that and start getting training on tactics and what it means to get arrested, which a lot of us at the time hadn't done before.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=2413.0,2470.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nAre you reaching out to other groups in the community? Black Lives Matter is operational at this time as are a couple of other groups. And of course, there's some traditional organization, civil rights groups as\n\nwell. Can you describe the extent to which your group is now working with or not working with these other organizations?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=2470.0,2500.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYeah. I think that there were a lot of opportunities for coalitions, and I think that my deepest regret is to not lean into those more. I think that as we were organizing, I think that because the majority of us were Black and queer and trans, I think that put up a lot of barriers of collaboration due to just general fear, not sure if folks would be accepting of our whole selves, right? And so I think that we wanted to carve out a space where we felt like we could mobilize. And I think a lot of times, we would show up in solidarity to events as would other folks. In particular, I know that there were several different times that I met with Muhiyidin and talked with him and connected with him, but there was never an opportunity for there to be any collaboration there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=2500.0,2561.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nMm-hmm (affirmative). Spin that out a little bit more in the “2022 Pope” sense, not so much back then. What do you make of that inability to form a tighter coalition? Can you give us some wisdom or analysis of why or how it could have happened if you had to do it over again or something?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=2561.0,2597.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nMm-hmm (affirmative). I mean A, I would've just dropped out of school. I think that being in school - all of us were in our junior, senior years of school, and I think that us being students made it particularly harder to have a deeper connection because unfortunately, we are fraught with deadlines and much like a lot of folks are, a lot of folks who work are also faced with deadlines. I think that in hindsight, I think that I would've tried to lean more into commonalities rather than our differences of our visions and values and how we see the world. I think that in our SONG space, Black brunch space, I think a lot of us were just wanting to show up in our fullness of being queer, being Black, of being low-income, what have you. I think we just all wanted to show up fully. And I think that we felt like there wasn't a space to do that collaboratively with other organizations.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=2597.0,2677.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nIn hindsight though, I think that what would've been better is to have shown up and to sit down and break bread together and build on commonalities rather than some of those differences that we perceived, some of which we perceived and some of which were real, right? And I think that to answer your question before, I will say at that time, there were a lot of organizations that were just showing up in Charleston wanting to do trainings. People were wanting to skill up folks. So there was a lot of opportunity to brush elbows with leaders there too, which was really insightful. So, getting to meet folks at the ILA who mobilized, getting to meet folks at the NAACP. So I think that there were opportunities where we all got to meet each other through skilling up and learning with each other. But that was to the extent that I felt like it happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=2677.0,2742.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nI don't want to sound like I'm putting words in your mouth, but I'm genuinely just interested in whether or not there may have been more emphasis on the actors as opposed to the fundamental systemic problems that existed. I see you shaking your head. So I mean-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=2742.0,2770.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=2770.0,2772.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nCan you explore that a little bit in terms of we're trying to be our authentic selves, but wasn't the problem about police brutality? How did the message and the messenger perhaps come into some conflict?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=2772.0,2796.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYeah. I mean I think that what I see as the beauty of organizing is an opportunity to cultivate spaces where you are enacting the liberatory space that you want to see. And I think that at the time in 2015, yes, there were Black men getting murdered. There are Black women getting murdered, there's also Black trans women that are witnessing so much violence. And I think that a lot of the dialogue and demands and conversations we were having as a group as well had to do with like okay, what are we doing to protect Black trans women right now? And I think at the time, folks weren't willing to have that conversation be a part of this broader dialogue around brutality. It was very masculine-centered and masculine-focused. And I think that for a lot of us, as people who were socialized as female, a lot of us were like, \"Hey, but wait, can we talk about this? Can we talk about that?\" This is a broader issue within it too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=2796.0,2866.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nAnd I think that the inability to be heard and to be seen, right? Because you also have trans-femmes who are also saying, \"Hey, I'm here too and I want to be seen,\" I think also played a role in some of that too. So while I do think, yes, could we have maybe swallowed our pride a little bit more here and there? By all means. We can all do that at times to make the work move. But I also think that the visions, there wasn't an opportunity for us to collaborate fully on the broader vision beyond Walter Scott, beyond Michael Brown. I think that wanting to have a deeper conversation about how white supremacy permeates in all aspects of the space that we're occupying in Charleston and our own identities as well. So yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=2866.0,2934.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nDo you have faith in the ability to transform a Charleston? I mean I'm just curious, what level of optimism do you have about the work you've engaged in and continue to do?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=2934.0,2956.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nI ask myself that every morning. I feel like I, as a historian, always have to look to the past in order to have some semblance of hope. I feel like when we're in moments that we're in now or even when I sit back and think about the work we did in 2014 and up to 2016 when I was really active in Charleston, I'm like, \"Did we do anything?\" But then I see 2020 happen and I see folks, young folks mobilizing, and they don't even understand the history and legacy of what's happening. A lot of them only know certain pieces and aspects of Charleston, just movement history. But it's so rich and it's so deep that to not be hopeful feels like a disservice to the folks who've laid the groundwork for me to be able to mobilize.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=2956.0,3018.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nSo yeah, there are days where I would wake up and say, \"Man, I have no hope,\" or there were days where I was burnt out. And then there was a point where I was like maybe my time in Charleston's done now. Maybe I've done all I can do and I'm tired, right? But even though I'm five hours away, I still have hope that we can detoxify the earth and the deep seated history of what has happened and continues to happen. I have hope in the people that are mobilizing there. And I think that if I didn't have that, then I would just stop. And I think that that's not a place that I want to get to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=3018.0,3069.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nWe're going to wrap up now, Pope. But one thing that we've been giving people an opportunity to think about is the fact that you don't know who will hear your words five years from now, 10 years from now. What is it that you want documented in this way in this time knowing that there will be folks down the road that will hear what you have to say?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=3069.0,3107.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ANSLEY KAMAU POPE\n\nYeah, that's a great question. I think that the most significant not necessarily advice, but just energy I have around the particular moment that we're talking about of being in Charleston, understanding its history and then finding my people, as we talked about, Black queer trans folks who want to rally for a possibility for hope, it’s so crucial to this time period. And I think that it is often so hidden by a lot of media and what you can find in microfilm or in old newspapers in thinking like, \"Oh, everyone in Charleston forgave and that's how it happened.\" And I think that I don't want that to be the legacy of movement from 2012 to 2016. The legacy of movement is that we were righteously angry. We mobilized the best that we could and the best that we knew how and we did what we had to do in order to try to get folks a little bit more free and get some semblance of justice. And so I think that's the biggest thing that I want to leave in this space is that we did it, we tried it and we're going to keep trying.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=3107.0,3214.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MILLICENT BROWN\n\nThank you so much, this has been delightful. Thank you very much. Take care.\n\n\n\nAnsley Kamau Pope (","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=3214.0,3219.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"): Thank you, all.\n\n\nMillicent Brown (","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=3219.0,3220.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973/transcript/87850/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"): All right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3440/collection_resources/164255/file/298973#t=3220.0,3221.5"}]}]}]}