{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/z02z31pw6m/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Robert Campbell, September 21, 2022"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2022-09-21 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewer"]},"value":{"en":["Scott, Blake"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewee"]},"value":{"en":["Campbell, Robert"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eIn this interview, Robert (Bob) Campbell III recalls his childhood, his work, and his political experiences growing up and living in Texas, along with his professional engagement with the East West Institute. Campbell grew up in San Antonio and his family had many personal and business connections with the US military and local political scene. He had an early interest in politics. After graduating from Austin College in 1971, and being part of the inaugural class of the Lyndon Baines Johnson School of Public Affairs at the University of Texas at Austin, Campbell took a job with Deloitte, a management consulting firm. He worked in Washington D.C. for several years before returning to Texas, with his wife and children. Campbell worked at Deloitte from 1973 and 2012 and managed some of the firms most important public sector projects. He was managing partner of the US Public Sector and co-founder of Deloitte’s Center for Cyber Innovation. These work experiences, at the intersection of the public and private sectors, introduced Campbell to the East West Institute’s leadership. In the early 2000s, in partnership with John Mroz and EWI, Campbell organized a series of cybersecurity summits attended by high-ranking officials from around the world, including Russia, China, and the United States. Upon retiring from Deloitte, Bob also became an Executive Committee member of the East West Institute and its Chair. In addition to his role on the EWI board, Bob has served on other prominent boards including chairman of the LBJ School of Public Affairs, the George HW Bush Foundation of US-China Relations, the Center of the Study of Race and Democracy-University of Texas at Austin, among others. In this interview, in addition to describing his many experiences, Campbell also discusses his approach to management and leadership, and how this connects with the mission of EWI. \u003c/p\u003e (abstract)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Contributing Institution"]},"value":{"en":["College of Charleston Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Media Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral History"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Personal or Corporate"]},"value":{"en":["College of Charleston","Deloitte \u0026amp; Co.","Democratic Party (U.S.)","EastWest Institute","Henry L. Stimson Center","Johnson, Lyndon B.","Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs","Mroz, John Edwin","Zhongguo gong chan dang"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Topical"]},"value":{"en":["Computer security","Corporate culture","Cyberterrorism","Decision making","Entrepreneurship","Geopolitics","Leadership","Organizational change","Philanthropinism","Race relations","Track two diplomacy"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Geographic"]},"value":{"en":["China","Russia","Texas"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type IMT"]},"value":{"en":["audio/m4a"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright © College of Charleston\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date Digital"]},"value":{"en":["2023-01-25"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eIn this interview, Robert (Bob) Campbell III recalls his childhood, his work, and his political experiences growing up and living in Texas, along with his professional engagement with the East West Institute. Campbell grew up in San Antonio and his family had many personal and business connections with the US military and local political scene. He had an early interest in politics. After graduating from Austin College in 1971, and being part of the inaugural class of the Lyndon Baines Johnson School of Public Affairs at the University of Texas at Austin, Campbell took a job with Deloitte, a management consulting firm. He worked in Washington D.C. for several years before returning to Texas, with his wife and children. Campbell worked at Deloitte from 1973 and 2012 and managed some of the firms most important public sector projects. He was managing partner of the US Public Sector and co-founder of Deloitte\u0026rsquo;s Center for Cyber Innovation. These work experiences, at the intersection of the public and private sectors, introduced Campbell to the East West Institute\u0026rsquo;s leadership. In the early 2000s, in partnership with John Mroz and EWI, Campbell organized a series of cybersecurity summits attended by high-ranking officials from around the world, including Russia, China, and the United States. Upon retiring from Deloitte, Bob also became an Executive Committee member of the East West Institute and its Chair. In addition to his role on the EWI board, Bob has served on other prominent boards including chairman of the LBJ School of Public Affairs, the George HW Bush Foundation of US-China Relations, the Center of the Study of Race and Democracy-University of Texas at Austin, among others. In this interview, in addition to describing his many experiences, Campbell also discusses his approach to management and leadership, and how this connects with the mission of EWI.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright \u0026copy; College of Charleston\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Campbell_Robert_Sept2022.mp3"]},"duration":5111.46,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-cofc.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/174/056/original/Campbell_Robert_Sept2022.mp3?1674673624","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":5111.46,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Transcript of Interview with Robert Campbell, September 21, 2022 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nOkay, we're recording now. My name is Blake Scott. Today is September 21st, 2022, and the name of this project is the EWI Society Oral History Project. Today, I'm in Charleston, South Carolina on Zoom. And for the record, could you state your name and where you're at?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=3.0,22.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nSure. Thank you, Blake. It's great to be with you. I am Robert Neil Campbell III. I go by Bob. I was born August 8th, 1949, in San Antonio, Texas. Would you like me to get into a little bit of my background there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=22.0,42.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nAbsolutely. My first question is, growing up in San Antonio in Texas, how did you first start thinking about international relations? What was going on in the world at that time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=42.0,55.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nSure. Well, I would say as a kid, I'm not sure how much I did think of international relations, although I was an avid follower of and reader of history in school and up to today. I grew up in the 1950s and 1960s. San Antonio was very much a military enclave with a large number of military bases, I guess reflective of the power of the Texas legislative delegation in Congress earlier in the century. But my late parents were part of the business military leadership community that really ran San Antonio and I grew up in that environment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=55.0,114.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"As a fun aside, my mom's mom, my late grandmother, while being a single mom in the '30s and '40s, was integrally involved in the founding and growth of the insurance giant, USAA. She ended up being the head of administration under General McDermott and the first corporate board secretary of USAA while raising my mom and my mom's twin sister, but just-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=114.0,153.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nI still get phone calls from San Antonio for that reason.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=153.0,158.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nI had a very low USAA number because within a week of my being born in 1949 as a, I guess, son of a naval captain and grandson of a USAA officer, I was, I think, enrolled in about a week and have a fairly low number that surprises some of the staff I deal with.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=158.0,184.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nBack to San Antonio, were your parents born there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=184.0,190.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nMy dad was. My mom was born in New York City but moved there at age two.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=190.0,191.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nHow far back can you trace your family in Texas?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=191.0,195.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nI believe, on my dad's side, I'm fourth generation. On my mom's side, more recent. The Campbell family, which had its origins in Alshyre, Scotland, came to the States in the middle 1800s and was in San Antonio before the end of the 19th century. On my mom's side, her mom, who I described earlier, was orphaned young, raised by a brother and sister. They moved to San Antonio when she was quite young, again, I think, late in the 19th century. So I'd only be third generation on my mom's side, I think fourth  on my dad's side. But my dad's dad was a business and political leader. My dad was a business leader and a lawyer and also owned a title company. So grew up kind of in the midst of that military business community there during the fifties and sixties.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=195.0,275.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nAnd in that, obviously very deep Texas roots. And in the 1950s and 1960s, when you're growing up in this business military community, what were some of the issues that you remember that came up that people would discuss about what was going on in the world? What were sort of key events that were discussed?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=275.0,294.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nI, certainly remember issues of race when I was young. That was not unique to San Antonio, but there were some pretty strong attitudes continuing throughout the South and San Antonio was no exception. I actually remember when I was quite young, on the rare occasions we would ride public transportation, my dad always taking us to the back of the bus or train. This is probably somewhere in the fifties, still out of the belief that the social morays of the time were so unjust relative to the expectations that people of diverse backgrounds having to do that. I remember on another occasion, we were members of a large downtown church,  a conflict, in the sixties now, around a young black family being admitted to the congregation. And remember my dad standing up in front of many friends and colleagues, who I think were fairly racist, just speaking out on what on earth are we thinking? What does the Bible say? What would Jesus say? And just had a lot of pride in that. And I like to think that had some influence early in my life on my values.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=294.0,396.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I would say by the mid-sixties, and I was in high school in the mi- sixties, certainly there were emerging views and considerable controversy around the growing Vietnam war commitment. By  the time I got to college that was in full force. And also witnessed some of the major cultural changes that were going on and taking place in the mid to late sixties in the US, fairly up close. In college, was a student leader, was president of a  student body. I was a moderate leader but still was  square in the middle and around what was going on in that era.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=396.0,461.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nHow did you try to navigate that as a student body president with all those different views?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=461.0,470.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nMaybe an egocentric comment, but I like to think I am pretty effective at moderating extreme views, and finding points of consensus. I like to think that skill may have even ended up being somewhat helpful in the world of the EastWest Institute, as I  had some opportunities to hone and test those skills early in my life and as a student leader. I  was the legislative assistant to a Texas state legislator once I got to Austin and similarly, that was a fairly challenging period. Many young people I hear talking about the level of divide today and the level of political dissension being something like we've never experienced before.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=470.0,534.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I counter  that if one was growing up in the sixties and was seeing the level of protests around the Vietnam War, was seeing the level of urban conflict over issues of equity and race, seeing cities burn as happened during that era, as troubling as some aspect of what's going on now, it actually, in my view, was not as acute as we experienced as a country earlier in my lifetime.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=534.0,576.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nI think that's an important reminder for folks who are too stuck in the present at times. I'm wondering, so you grew up in San Antonio, you moved to Austin for college?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=576.0,590.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nNo. I ended up going to Austin College in Sherman, Texas.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=590.0,596.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nOh, okay. Sherman, Texas.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=596.0,599.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\n Austin College is a small private liberal arts college.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=599.0,604.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nThat's correct.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=604.0,605.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nIt used to be affiliated with the Presbyterian church. It actually has the oldest charter of any institution in Texas. It was chartered, I believe, in 1849 in Huntsville and ultimately moved to Sherman, I think, after a yellow fever outbreak on the coast in that period.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=605.0,634.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nWhat was it like going to school in Sherman at Austin College? What was that experience?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=634.0,643.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\n I think very highly of Austin College. It provided me  a very strong foundation in business and in history  both of which were degrees that I pursued. I would say, at the time, Sherman was small, was provincial. And I ended up gravitating toward Dallas as I was able, which was about an hour away. But one had quite a sense of community there. It was small, the student body was small. They had a very strong pre-med, pre-law focus. I  was part of that community, was involved, certainly was an athlete, was involved in student government, ended up being president of the student body there f. I  reflect fondly on those four years, although probably the pinnacle of the four years was meeting my future wife Laura when she was a freshman. And ultimately, on the week I graduated from college, marrying Laura in the chapel on campus before we came down to Austin for graduate school.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=643.0,735.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nOkay. So now I think I have a better sense. Obviously, I confused my Austins there. But what were your goals or aspirations coming out of college, and were you already thinking about getting involved in international relations or was it something more domestic that you were thinking about at that point?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=735.0,755.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\n I would say in college my focus was more domestic policy. Certainly my history studies were more domestic and my business focus.   I ended up being an honors graduate in business.  My interest was business although I also had a major in history. . A s a 21 year old kid, I then got into the MBA program at Wharton somehow. But as Laura and I were looking at the possibility of going to Philadelphia, I had my head turned by those that were getting the Lyndon Johnson School of Public Affairs in Austin off the ground.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=755.0,815.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We were getting married. They ended up offering us, as I recall, $450 a month in 1971 dollars just to go to school. No work, no teaching. I think because of attitudes around the Vietnam War, they were having a tough time attracting, in their words, star students.   I don't know if I was one or not, but they somehow fell into believing I was. So with the intrigue of their vision for the school, coupled with the attractive stipend, we turned the U-Haul van toward Austin rather than Philadelphia.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=815.0,860.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nWas that the first year of the LBJ School of Public Affairs?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=860.0,866.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nThere was a conversion year from an old Institute of Public Administration. This was the second year, but I think the first full class, as I recall the history. But it was still rather small. I don't think my class had more than 35 kids in it at the time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=866.0,888.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nAnd what were you studying and what were you planning on doing with those studies? I'm curious.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=888.0,896.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nWell, the vision of President Johnson and those that were building the school and the curriculum was to focus on developing skills in practical problem solving, practical management skills relative to the various issues facing the state and facing the country. There was a core curriculum with fairly strong public policy footing, but there was also a strong emphasis on having the students actually engage in real issues with real programs and real agencies. So over the course of the two years, I was involved in a couple of contracts that the school had with Texas state agencies. For a period I was the legislative assistant to a Texas House of Representative member and had a summer intern[ship] where I was special assistant to the deputy commissioner of the largest state agency. So I had a chance to be out there doing real things around real issues while in school. And it was fascinating.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=896.0,996.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was particularly fascinating to be there during the period that President Johnson was living, given the extraordinary number of global dignitaries that would come to Austin to get to his ranch. And he and his staff would almost always bring the dignitaries over to the school and have a sit down discussion with a group of students. And got to participate in many of those, which was likely not great preparation for the world of work, but was still pretty fascinating as a 22-year old kid to be shaking hands with different world leaders such as Averell Harriman, Harold Wilson, Hubert Humphrey, etc etc.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=996.0,1041.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nDoes that feel like the beginning of your international engagements with the LBJ School, or is it an earlier time period that I'm missing?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=1041.0,1050.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nI would candidly not say I had an undo focus internationally during that era. In college I did have a January term that was focused on Asian studies. Certainly at the LBJ School had exposure to various international issues. But even at the LBJ School, much of my focus was domestic. I'm not sure it would be fair to say that I had an early and deep global or international focus at that time, be that good, bad or indifferent.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=1050.0,1098.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nNo, no. I'd like to know what your aspirations were and what you were focusing on as you graduate from LBJ School. So what comes next as you graduate?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=1098.0,1108.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nSure. Well, while I was at the LBJ School, I was exposed through a couple of these contractual relationships with state agencies to what was then a rather early emerging field of management consulting, and management consulting particularly in the accounting industry. I liked the concept of being able to be part of a private firm, but also to be engaged at a fairly high level in significant public policy issues and public program administrative. I ended up along with  a good friend driving overnight from Austin to Washington and walked the halls unannounced.   Somehow I  came away with some offers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=1108.0,1166.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then  in June of 1973, when I was 23 and Laura was 21, we moved to Washington, DC, where I was an associate consultant with Touche Ross \u0026 Company, which at the time was one of the smaller members of the Big 8  but had a leading consultancies .  It  was a predecessor to the global firm Deloitte. I candidly, at the time, was going to do that for several years to gain some experience.   I had the good fortune of getting on a very fast track in the firm, having some just amazing assignments that ended up getting me on a public policy, public sector-focused consultancy path. That three or four year plan ended up being 39 years in practice, the 39 years I've had the good fortune of spending with the global industry leader, Deloitte.  I was a partner there for 32 years, led the firm’s largest industry practice , and was a vice chairman of the firm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=1166.0,1265.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nI've heard Deloitte's name many times, and I'm sure some of the future listeners will have heard of Deloitte before, but could you tell us a little bit about what Deloitte's mission was and what type of projects they took on?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=1265.0,1277.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nDeloitte is the largest and leading professional services firm in the world with over a hundred year history. The origin of the firm is very much in the accounting and auditing area, but the management consulting area, which really was starting to take off about at the time I was associated with that predecessor firm, has been a significant contributor to the growth and eminence of the firm. The firm serves all major industries. The firm has a very wide array of services, from auditing, taxation, consulting, to some other areas. It so happens that the practice of public sector consulting, which I had been with early and ultimately helped to lead, is one of the larger and fastest growing areas of the firm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=1277.0,1360.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nTo offer some examples, could you tell me some of the public sector projects that you got involved in?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=1360.0,1366.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nSure. I will tell you early on, I don't want to get into naming clients.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=1366.0,1374.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nHowever you'd like to do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=1374.0,1376.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nHere are  few examples indicative of the level of involvement and level of reach, as a young consultant, that I had the good fortune of being involved.  I  helped  build the National Payment Audit program over a very large federal cash distribution program  serving the aged, blind and disabled. I was part of a team that built the first national Medicaid quality control system. I was part of the team implementing the higher education amendments in 1976, which included the creation of state-based higher education student loan guarantees….just  as a few examples from very early in my career when I was in Washington. \n\nBy 1977, I had the opportunity to come back to Texas with the same firm to help open our consulting practice in Austin.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=1376.0,1455.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We jumped at that, given we were from Texas.  Our two oldest daughters had been  born in the DC area but by the time we got back to Austin in late 1977, we were here for good. We thought it was important to raise our four children in one location with the stability that would bring. And I ended up doing a fair amount of travel out of Austin for firm matters, for clients, for other purposes over the years. But we kept our roots in Austin, which is where we still are.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=1455.0,1513.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nThere's many questions I could ask you, trying to trace this out, but we'll maybe skip ahead and then we can retrace a few things. How did you then get connected with EWI? When does that relationship start?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=1513.0,1527.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nThat would fast forward quite a ways. I believe my first awareness of EWI would have come in the early part of this century. And although I'm a little fuzzy on which came first, I had helped bring a fabulous retired four-star Air Force general to Deloitte as we were building our defense practice in Washington, four-star General Chuck Wald, who had been the deputy to the Supreme Allied Commander of NATO among other roles. When he retired from the Defense Department, Chuck was asked to join the East West Institute board. As I was interviewing General Wald and encouraging him to consider Deloitte, which had to be  2005, he made me aware of the East West Institute given his board role there. General Wald ultimately both encouraged me to consider EWI and encouraged John Mroz, the founder of EWI, to find a way to get me engaged. As I recall, somewhere around 2006, , John came to Washington from New York to have lunch with me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=1527.0,1643.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He just wanted to meet me, and we had a very engaging discussion. I really grew to be fond of John. And that was, I think, part of the foundation for ultimate involvement. \n\n John always had his antenna up for emerging issues that could be the source of international conflict. And during this period, cyber risk was emerging in John's mind, and I think ultimately in reality, as a prospective source of international conflict. And John, as he had done in some other issues historically, wanted to position EWI into a thought leadership role there, but also to utilize cyber as a vehicle for some multinational track two discussions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=1643.0,1724.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"John broached that topic with me and fortuitously, at Deloitte we were also looking at cyber as a significant emerging market need. During the same period, leadership at Deloitte supported the creation of what was then the Deloitte Center for Cyber Innovation. We had the good fortune of attracting wonderful three-star General Harry Raduege,  to lead the center. Harry and I ended up developing a very strong work and personal relationship. Harry, just by way of background, had been the head of the Defense Information Services Agency, which I think is still the largest IT operation in the world. Harry had been the chair of the NCOIC, which was the global net standard setting organization. And he also co-chaired the US Congressional Cyber Commission,  whose work led to much of our national cyber policy at the time.\n\nDeloitte ended up playing an active role in building the EWI cyber security program and my relationship with John and fondness for EWI grew over the next several years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=1724.0,1838.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nI want to take a quick step back here to try to understand some of these relationships that you formed with the military leaders. So was Deloitte doing consulting for branches of the military and Department of Defense?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=1838.0,1853.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\n I had  the good fortune of being asked by the firm to help stand up our federal consultancy in, I believe, 2001. And certainly the defense and  intel area is very important to any federal consultancy. So in building our presence in Washington, helping lay the foundation for the growth of that practice,I  was building relationships and collaborating with a number of people out of the defense sector. And we were hiring some some senior people from that  sector.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=1853.0,1900.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nUnderstand. Now, when you come into this conversation with EWI, based on your experiences and the intersection between private and public sectors, what were some of the issues that you wanted EWI to bring up in Track II diplomacy around cybersecurity?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=1900.0,1919.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nWell, I would say that we did not enter that discussion with specific issues in mind as much as an interest in supporting a process for bringing leading countries' cyber thought leaders and leading corporate thought leaders together to work through those issues where agreement could be molded to work together. That led to  the idea of convening global cyber summits as a vehicle for facilitating multinational dialogue on cyber. And again, this is the fairly early days of cyber policy development and certainly early days of multinational discussions around cyber issues.  Deloitte did support the efforts, General Raduege  allocated a meaningful portion of his time to supporting that vision. And by, I would guess, 2009, maybe, the first of, I believe, 10 global cyber summits was convened, in Dallas.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=1919.0,2031.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If I recall correctly, there were representatives of the US, Russia, EU, India, China, and many if not most of the leading technology companies in the US together for two-day facilitated discussions. As you would expect, there were some issues where there was a mutuality of interest, which we tended to gravitate toward. There was others that we did not. That first summit  was just amazing… the caliber of attendants and the substance of the discussions. My friend Secretary Tom Ridge, who was  the former secretary of Homeland Security keynoted the conference. Jim Quigley, who was the CEO of Deloitte at the time, made some thoughtful keynote comments as well. And that ended up being the first of, I believe what became 10 summits right up until  the beginning of COVID.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=2031.0,2119.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nAnd these are all EWI summits?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=2119.0,2122.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nYes.  EWI convened and supported summits at different locations globally.  General Raduege and I had the good fortune I think in participating in every one. We addressed  some fascinating cyber  policy issues that...  everything from protecting kids in cyber, reducing spam in cyber, protecting above-ground exposed cable from attack, thinking through what protection for critical assets protecting people's life, like hospitals, might be under a multinational cyber agreement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=2122.0,2191.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think certainly there were some fronts where over that period the ball was moved. And certainly as with any track two convening, just the fact of having senior representatives together, exchanging ideas, exchanging perspectives, I think contributed to more understanding and hopefully some modicum of trust being developed, which is what to a large extent EWI was all about. And I was honored to be involved and square in the middle of that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=2191.0,2240.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nI think this is a good moment to try to think about how these summits reflected EWI's mission and vision. And for future listeners, some of them will be more familiar with EWI, some of them will be new to it. How did you see these summits reflecting EWI's vision? How is this an example of what the institute's about?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=2240.0,2265.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nGood question. Others may have different ways of expressing it, but I think EWI's sweet spot was getting out ahead of potential emerging conflicts to help avoid conflict and make the world safer for future generations. And where the prospects for conflict was more real, to try to tap down on it and rebuild trust and understanding. John and I discussed this on occasion, I'm not sure we ever documented a methodology. I think there were some core tenets of the approach that were integral to much of what we did, and that I think will also be important to the success of future Track II initiatives in the post-EWI era.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=2265.0,2355.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"A  few that come to mind include:  really working hard in advance on agreement on those selected issues where there is enough mutuality of interest and willingness  to open up,  that  there is some confidence that one can have a meaningful dialogue. I think it was also important to have  a commitment that participants within reason leave whatever hat they wore into the room at the door and try to focus on the issue versus whatever entity they represent, whatever that entity's point of view is, whatever that entity's sound bites are. I think having a strong commitment to Chatham House Rules where the discussions are privileged, and although one can summarize discussions ,  one does not attribute specific comments to any participant. And I think generally not having media participation, not seeking headlines out of the meeting , and having a fairly quiet collaborative process also contributes to success..","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=2355.0,2466.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Finally,  having a commitment to a “ parking lot “where all of the extraneous stuff that will inevitably come up can go get placed to get it out of the way. That's probably my extemporaneous version of the methodology, but I think those factors were meaningful contributors to the track two successes that I think EWI was able to achieve in a number of settings.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=2466.0,2509.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nIt sounds like you worked closely with John on these initiatives. If you could tell us a little bit about what your working dynamic was with John, or if there were other folks that you worked closely with, just to understand some of those dynamics.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=2509.0,2524.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nSure. Well, let me, just backing up, or maybe moving forward as the case may be, I actually did not join the EastWest board until June of 2012. So considering the 40-year history of EWI, I got to witness as a board member only the last  nine years, although I'd had a several year precedent involvement as a participant and informal advisor. As a partner and leader at Deloitte, I simply did not didn't have bandwidth to be on the board, but also had other limiting factors relative to serving on any board. \n\nIt's interesting to me that  my last day with Deloitte was a Friday in May of 2012. I relaxed that Friday night. That Saturday morning, Laura and I were on a plane to Edinburgh, Scotland for my first EWI board meeting. So I did a poor  job of taking the counsel I've given other executives, which was after you retire from something, to take some time to relax and reflect.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=2524.0,2625.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Interesting, it was just nine months after that meeting that John asked me to join the executive committee of the board where the real governance activities of the board take place, which I was very honored to accept. I'm not sure what John saw in me to do that. And we had to get an exemption at the time to the bylaws, which required 12 months on the board before one can be an executive committee member. But John went for that. Starting   April of 2013, I was on the board executive committee as well. That gave me  a chance to work more closely with John, which tended to be around specific priority initiatives. I've already described cyber.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=2625.0,2697.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I would say there were two other priority initiatives that I got t more engaged with, one of which I think succeeded very well, the other did not. I'll take them in reverse order. I would say by probably in 2014, ' as part of John's having his antenna up to emerging issues that could lead to international conflict, water shortage, water demand was identified as such an issue. I helped John with that. We hired a couple of very qualified people in that space and had a couple of events. I would say in retrospect, we were both a little ahead of the market and a little behind in any efforts to raise money in support of it. So it ended up kind of drifting off without having quite the impact that we envisioned. Interestingly enough, one of our successor organizations, the Stimson Institute, does have a renewed focus there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=2697.0,2802.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"A number of  artifacts out of our earlier activities are foundational for what Stimson and our former staff member Farwa Aamer are now doing around the water issue, principally in Southeast Asia. I'd say the other area that I was much, much more involved and the most meaningful area of involvement for me was around the bilateral US-China relationship.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=2802.0,2858.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There were several programs, but probably the most significant and most impactful program was what's called the party-to-party dialogue. The origin of that, probably 10 years ago now, was a discussion that I recall our friend General Jim Jones, the former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, and then White House Security Advisor and four-star Navy General Bill Owens, had with Chinese leaders around just what might EastWest do to make a difference and be helpful.  China had certainly strong state department level relations with most countries, including the US, but unlike many other countries, they  don't really have strong political party relations in the US, and certainly in China it is all about political party.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=2858.0,2937.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So East West agreed to take on and convene a set of party-to-party dialogues where we sourced, prepped and facilitated dialogues between senior former leaders of the US Republican Party, the US Democratic Party, and China Communist Party.  For the US it included  former governors, cabinet members, senators, and party leaders  from both parties. It was done on a rotating basis between Beijing and Washington. On one occasion we actually had a US Midwest tour as part of it as well, which I'll come back to just because it was so memorable. I had a chance to participate in six or seven of those around the world. And actually, when John got ill, I was asked to actually moderate the one in Washington, I believe in 2016. As with cyber earlier described,  the methods we used  facilitated a  somewhat open dialogue, facilitating some learning, and  development of understanding.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=2937.0,3063.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And hopefully out of all that, some additive level  of trust. And I would say we did move the ball on that., although I'm not happy with where the bilateral relationship is today, in spite of all our previous good efforts. Two memories out of one of them that I just think are really special. I remember having the delegation on the Midwest tour being in Austin, and through our friend and my friend Joe Strauss, who was the then speaker of the Texas House, had a reception in the speaker's chamber .  The leader of the Chinese  delegation, who at the time was the secretary of the Department of Foreign Affairs of the party, which is I guess a secretary of state almost equivalency, was gifted  a big speaker's gavel and at the House podium , banging the gavel to get his picture taken and laughing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=3063.0,3141.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"On that same trip,  we stopped in Salt Lake. And it was almost Christmas season . I remember going to the Mormon Tabernacle.  This was arranged a little bit in advance, but we actually had the leaders of the Chinese delegation and our team as guests at a practice of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. This was with the million lights out in front of the tabernacle. And remember our Chinese friends taking pictures of everyone with the lights. And then during the Tabernacle's practice, about halfway through, the director pausing and recognizing the secretary  of the Department of Foreign Affairs of the party who stood and got a standing ovation. These  just two little things, but two things that for me were both memorable and hopefully at the time somewhat contributory to building some relationship and  some level of mutual trust.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=3141.0,3235.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nI had a follow up question to this, and you can take it however you want, but I'm just thinking about a 40 year career at Deloitte on Friday and EWI career starting the very next day. Can you help me understand and listeners understand, what was your motivation, what was driving you personally that after all this work, I'm ready to pick up some more work? What were you thinking at that time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=3235.0,3267.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nAt the time I retired from Deloitte,  I had zero interest in retiring or slowing down. I'd loved the 39 , years at Deloitte. I had reached the partner retirement age, but I was young, healthy, energetic, and was eager to move on to the next phase of my career, and EWI was an element of that. I But in the post-Deloitte era of my career, I've had a management consultancy and advise a number of CEOs. I advise a couple of private equity groups. I'm on a number of corporate boards. I'm on a number of non-profit boards. And we are active angel investors in early stage companies with big ideas.  EWI was over in that non-profit board bucket, but it was really a subset of a broader plan for re-energizing the next phase of my career and getting productively and impactfully involved in a whole bunch of different things that interested me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=3267.0,3373.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nNo, it does. I'm interested in the particular things that interest you. It sounds like management and leadership are key fields of interest. I want to understand what that looks like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=3373.0,3391.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nI like making a difference on issues that matter. I enjoy helping solve tough issues, and where possible, tough issues that haven't been solved before. I enjoy mentoring and helping grow really bright young entrepreneurs, really bright young executives. Probably a bit egocentric, but I also enjoy the gratification of having my experience and professional insights being valued out there. I'm not adverse to making money, although I'm also quite comfortable with supporting a number of good causes that making money puts us in the position of being able to do. We haven't talked about it, but my wife has a longstanding involvement in a very significant and meaningful ministry. And to the extent me doing what I do helps support some of the amazing things she does, that's a good thing too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=3391.0,3493.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nIt does, it does help. It helps understand. Now, when you think about these, trying to bring management and leadership and good business practices to EWI, what were some of the ways you were bringing that to the institute? Were there challenges that you were trying to overcome in terms of fundraising or management?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=3493.0,3521.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nI was  part of the leadership team embodied in the executive committee of the board that was responsible for governance. Part of governance was compliance with our bylaws. Part of governance was overseeing our fundraising to show that we were meeting our obligations. Part of governance was assuring our compliance with the different regulatory requirements that major nonprofits practicing globally must comply with. And part of governance was overseeing our programs and their impact","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=3521.0,3570.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nIt sounds like a career at Deloitte would prepare you for that type of...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=3570.0,3583.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nI think that's fair. EWI, as impactful as it was and as extraordinary as John Mroz was, was not a large, complex organization. I'd be surprised if we had 50 staff or  if our annual operating budget ever got much over $10 million. We did have a large board, which I think ran around 45 people, but in many cases these were global luminaries who were bringing reputation and insights but were not living EWI day-to-day. One of John Mroz's extraordinary strengths, among others, was both finding amazing people globally and somehow even with the relatively small organization I described, getting senior accomplished people energized enough about his vision, energized enough about the difference they could make, to both allocate their time and resources to what we were doing. And I don't know if you've as of yet gone over our historical board list, but it's a pretty amazing group of US and global leaders, and actually I was humbled just being a small part of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=3583.0,3710.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nI have a few other questions and if there are other things you'd like to talk about, please let me know. But I never met John and unfortunately future listeners won't be able to meet him. What was he like as a leader and as a person?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=3710.0,3726.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nSure. Very personable, strong entrepreneurial spirit, willingness and propensity to think out of the box. Extraordinary skills, people skills, whether  recruiting board members, building international relations, just extraordinary people skills. People just wanted to be part of what John was doing and what John was leading. I would not say day-to-day operational management, day-to-day budget management was necessarily a core strength. And from time to time, certainly getting late in the fiscal year, there was a scramble to get the budget to balance. Certainly his appetite for big ideas, big initiatives was extraordinary. That could have the effect of driving staff pretty hard but staff also loved it and loved him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=3726.0,3829.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nIt does, absolutely. I'm just trying to honestly drop myself into those moments to imagine what it would be like, running around creating all these programs. Are there other topics that you'd like to cover or things that we skipped over?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=3829.0,3848.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nI guess we have not talked about the late years of EWI nor the ultimate dissolution of EWI. We could go down that path.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=3848.0,3874.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nI'm interested and I think it should be documented. We could start it with a positive way of thinking about it and that is… How does the relationship with EWI and its partnering universities, such as the College of Charleston and I believe University of Notre Dame as well… is that part of the program to formally stop these Track II efforts, or is that more of an after effect? I know I worded that in a complicated way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=3874.0,3910.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nI'd probably approach that a little differently.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=3910.0,3913.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nOkay. You approach it the way you'd like and I'll listen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=3913.0,3916.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nJohn Mroz, sadly, died much too young. He had a rare disease and it ultimately led to his passing at a comparatively young age. I mentioned earlier his extraordinary entrepreneurial spirit, his extraordinary ability to motivate and attract donors, board members, talented young staff. In the six or seven years after John's passing I would say that although we had highly experienced, highly committed successor leadership teams, we were never able to fully emulate those strengths that John had that led to East West in the 30 or so years he had led it from inception to be what it was.  I'm not casting aspersions at anyone subsequently, but John was just such a unique person that we were not able to fully replicate the strengths that made EWI what it was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=3916.0,4031.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I would say, as a function of that, finances were starting to be strained, even  ahead of COVID, and we were going through some strategic reassessment ahead of COVID. When COVID hit, an organization that was already dealing with some financial challenges had its core competency, which was in person, quiet, multinational convening, go away. And it was not clear how long it was going to be gone, which led to a situation where we were starting to eke into the permanent endowment of the organization. \n\nA lot of time went in at the executive committee of the board to assessing what our alternatives might be. In fact, the board did approve a strategic assessment of our strategic options.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=4031.0,4126.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We  retained a very capable advisor, Jonathan Fanton,  the former CEO of the MacArthur Foundation, to help us through that assessment. And although we considered a range of options, including  doing nothing and maintaining the course, doing a major merger, or shutting down.  in the end   a vision was created for, if you will, keeping the programs alive, keeping the flame of John Mroz alive, but through a new form. And what we ended up developing was a plan through which each of our major programs and the staff running those programs and staffing those programs would be transferred to more specialized organizations in those areas where our program could continue, our staff could continue, and we would help seed that out of the endowment. That led to a series of successful transfer negotiations. The cybersecurity program went to the Observer Institute, our China party-to-party program went to the George HW Bush Foundation for US-China Relations, number of our other programs, including the China Military-to-Military Dialogue that Admiral Owens was leading, went to the Stimson Center.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=4126.0,4250.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And in the end, to my knowledge, all of our staff who wanted to continue and all our programs continued under that restructuring. \n\nAfter the seeding of that restructuring, there was still a significant resource remaining in the endowment, which we concluded that we wanted to create a graduate institute in the name of our founder. And fast forward, that is why we're talking today, and that's what the John Mroz Institute is, which the EastWest Institute endowment played a significant role in funding.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=4250.0,4306.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Karen Mroz, John's wife, has played an active role in getting it off the ground. A former board member who's intimately involved on campus also played an integral role. And although I may be biased, having been part of the executive committee that engineered the plan, but in relationship to many non-profits that have run their life cycle and go away and die, I think we derived a fairly elegant solution for preserving programs, preserving positions for our staff, while creating a permanent legacy memorial in John's name, which hopefully will be living at the College of Charleston for a long time to come, while having the opportunity for many of our board members to re-up and be involved in the successor entities in other capacities.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=4306.0,4383.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Just as an example, and I think this would apply to many of our board members, I'm on an advisory committee on track two diplomacy at the Stimson Center. I'm on the advisory board of the George HW Bush Foundation for US-China Relations. And  I've been trying to be  actively engaged  at College of Charleston as I am able… And I think that would apply to many of our legacy board members. So again, I may be biased, having played a role in helping engineer this outcome, but I think it's elegant.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=4383.0,4427.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nThat was a very clear explanation of it that I hadn't heard it quite that clearly yet. And that makes sense.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=4427.0,4437.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nHopefully what I described is also accurate.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=4437.0,4442.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nWell, that's why we always get other perspectives, but it sounds pretty accurate to me, and I think most folks would agree with you on that. From your perspective of being on this committee, helping orchestrate and design this transition, what are your goals, as outcomes, for this next chapter? Are there learning outcomes or diplomatic outcomes that you're looking for?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=4442.0,4473.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nI'm not sure I can speak for everyone, but I think in discussions we have had, certainly creating a venue for the study of track two diplomacy, for the identification of best practices in track two diplomacy is important. Creating a convening ability, hopefully at the College of Charleston, where those of us that want to continue to stay involved in international policy discussions, those of us that want to stay involved in track two-related disciplines can continue to stay involved. And through all that, having some permanence to the memorial to John and the memorial to all those who helped make the East West Institute what it was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=4473.0,4557.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT  \n\nThank you for that. This may be the last question unless you have questions that you want to design off with this, but based on all these legacies and your experiences, from growing up in San Antonio all the way through your career at Deloitte and your work with EWI, and clearly this next chapter of the Mroz Institute at the College of Charleston, what advice would you offer to someone in college interested in starting out their career? Are there sort of key takeaways or things you want young people to have in their mind?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=4557.0,4593.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nGood question. I do have a chance to speak on campus from time to time and at the LBJ School from time to time. And that's not the first time I've been asked the question.   I would say there would be several thoughts. First, focus in one's academic pursuits on developing those skill areas which will be important to your future engagement in whatever you want to do in the public arena.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=4593.0,4647.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In my view, certainly becoming conversant in technology, conversant in budget and financial management while developing the basic management skills that I think any executive running any public program needs to develop early on. I don't find that many people who are focused on that early on, but I encourage people to develop those skills. Encourage young people not to let their uncertainty about what they ultimately want to do to get them frozen in the tracks in the meantime as they figure it out, versus get engaged, jump into something, try it out. You can always move on to something new and different, but don't let uncertainty slow you down.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=4647.0,4713.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Also encourage young people early on in their careers to get known for something. It almost doesn't matter what that something is initially, but find some policy issues, some programmatic issues where you can develop insights unique to yourself that end up having the marketplace beat a path to your door versus the other way around. And I actually think that's a lot easier than it would sound. \n\nEncourage people early on in their careers, well, both in school and early in their careers to focus on networking. I think, well, if I was talking to a 23-year old consultant today, I would encourage them to take time every week to meet someone new. Take someone new to coffee, someone to lunch. Try to pick people a little more experienced, a little more accomplished than you are, as  people are almost always willing to do that. And if you do that over a year, that's 50 new relationships, two years is 100 new relationships. And if one curates those relationships carefully, many of those people within a few years are going to be leading programs, leading agencies, and that's your network.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=4713.0,4812.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I guess most of these comments would apply either to graduate students or to young people in the workforce, but really focus on building your permanent brand and not being shy about writing an article, about seeking the opportunity to speak at a local event, and use that experience to kind of hone your skills. But in the process of doing it, you are building your personal brand and personal brand recognition. That's seven or eight things that I would generally counsel young people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=4812.0,4859.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nYeah, I counted six at least, so that was very useful. I'm a little bit more in the middle of my career, still early, but I think I should follow some of these as well. So this is excellent advice. I can see why they brought you in to consult on these things. Are there other final points that you'd like to make for the record?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=4859.0,4886.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nI'll just take you to a fun anecdote from last month involving Major General Zhang Li is the senior Chinese major general who is defense attaché to the US Embassy. David Firestein, the CEO of the Bush Foundation,  was having a conversation with the major general, who was approaching retirement and going back to Beijing. And he said, \"Well, I've never been to Texas. I've never seen a Texas ranch.\" David called me, and, \"Would you be open to having the major and his delegation out to the ranch?\" And I said, sure. So I guess this is six weeks ago. Major General Li, his wife, two senior colonels, one of whom is taking over for him, and several of the senior staff with the Bush Foundation all came to Austin.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=4886.0,4963.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We took the general out for a barbecue lunch, had a good policy discussion, came out to our ranch, taught the general and his colonels to play horse shoes. They didn't know horse shoes, they learned to play horse shoes. We taught them to play corn hole with the bean bags and the general actually made one.   And then we got out the range cubes and went out to the fence where our longhorns were on the other side and taught them to feed longhorns range cubes by hand. We  got a bunch of pictures and I mean, just had a wonderful time.  As an aside, had some good policy exchanges in the course of the day. But I came away from the day just thinking, wow, that kind of embodies the sort of quiet, behind the scenes bilateral relationship building that EWI was all about and that we ought to be continuing to do. And it was fun.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=4963.0,5038.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nI can see that in these more interpersonal dynamics where it's more about developing a relationship. And then that's where the trust comes in to have more difficult conversations about policy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=5038.0,5054.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nThat's anecdotal, but two years removed from EWI, probably not a bad example of an EWI legacy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=5054.0,5066.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nThank you for sharing that and all the experiences that have led up to your ongoing work with EWI.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=5066.0,5074.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nThank you. What else?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=5074.0,5078.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nI think that'll probably be good. We could always have a part two interview. I like to keep these interviews within an hour to an hour and a half range, so that they're more in digestible bites for listeners.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=5078.0,5094.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ROBERT CAMPBELL\n\nWe may have failed that… Maybe we got in under an hour and a half.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=5094.0,5102.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056/transcript/41510/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BLAKE SCOTT\n\nWe're probably right at the threshold of an hour and a half. If it's okay with you, I'm going to pause the interview and then we could talk just for a minute.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/85856/file/174056#t=5102.0,5111.46"}]}]}]}