{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/z60bv7cc7c/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with William Ide, February 9, 2023"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2023-02-09 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewer"]},"value":{"en":["Whalen, Emily"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interviewee"]},"value":{"en":["Ide, William"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eWilliam (Bill) Ide relates in this oral history his time as general counsel for the EastWest Institute. Ide eventually became Co-Chairman of the Board of EWI, and, ultimately, oversaw the winding down of the Institution's independent activity and the transition to the legacy center at the College of Charleston. He reflects on John Mroz's ability to connect with people, and on Mroz's ability to get stakeholders to see beyond their perceptions of foreign countries, developing empathy and unusual insight. \u003c/p\u003e (abstract)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Contributing Institution"]},"value":{"en":["College of Charleston Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Media Type"]},"value":{"en":["Oral History"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Personal or Corporate"]},"value":{"en":["American Bar Association","EastWest Institute","College of Charleston","Fanton, Jonathan F.","Mroz, John Edwin","Munter, Cameron"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Topical"]},"value":{"en":["Cold War","Decision making","Endowments","European Union","Internationalism","Leadership","Organizational change","Track two diplomacy"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject - Geographic"]},"value":{"en":["Europe, Eastern","Middle East","Russia"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type IMT"]},"value":{"en":["video/mp4"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright © College of Charleston\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date Digital"]},"value":{"en":["2023-03-06"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eWilliam (Bill) Ide relates in this oral history his time as general counsel for the EastWest Institute. Ide eventually became Co-Chairman of the Board of EWI, and, ultimately, oversaw the winding down of the Institution's independent activity and the transition to the legacy center at the College of Charleston. He reflects on John Mroz's ability to connect with people, and on Mroz's ability to get stakeholders to see beyond their perceptions of foreign countries, developing empathy and unusual insight.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright \u0026copy; College of Charleston\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowcountry Digital Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/212/original/LOHI_aviarybanner2.jpg?1741032082","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/175/808/small/Ide_Bill_Feb2023.mp4_1678068269.jpg?1678068270","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Ide_Bill_Feb2023.mp4"]},"duration":2352.32,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/175/808/small/Ide_Bill_Feb2023.mp4_1678068269.jpg?1678068270","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-cofc.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/175/808/original/Ide_Bill_Feb2023.mp4?1678068267","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":2352.32,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Transcript of Interview with William Ide, February 9, 2023 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nGood morning. It is Thursday, February 9th, 2023, and my name is Emily Whalen. If you could introduce yourself for us, and tell us your name, position and your role at the East West Institute.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1.0,15.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nWell, thank you, Emily. Well, my name is Bill Ide. I'm an attorney, and I was President of the American Bar Association. And through that, was chairman of the ABA Rule of Law Initiative where we were working in the former Soviet bloc countries after the fall of the Berlin Wall to sort of the martial plan for the justice system. So we were working in each of the former Soviet bloc countries. And through that, John Mroz became well aware of Sealy. And my first exposure to EWI was Joel Cowan, who has been on the board a long time, invited me to a lunch, which was attended by Sam Nunn, who was in the Senate, George Russell, who was a chairman of the board at that time, along with the former president of Finland and John Mroz. And unbeknownst to me, their purpose was that John had had a wonderful lawyer that had been his pro bono lawyer for a period of time who had taken that position with a for-profit company called MBIA and could no longer do pro bono.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=15.0,88.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So the purpose of the luncheon, I guess, was to meet me and if I passed their muster to see if I would become the general counsel pro bono, which I did. And I stayed in that role throughout the life of EWI, which is, gosh, that's probably 15, 20 years ago. And then I became chairman of the executive committee with Mark Maletz. And Mark had been another one of those early people with John that had done such great work. But Mark had health issues. So John asked me if I would be the chairman of the executive committee, which I did,. And upon John's—I did that while John was still living. And then upon his death, I sort of ended up being the person that we had to go through a search for John's successor. And then I oversaw the operations. We had had key man insurance, which was a real tribute to some thoughtful people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=88.0,157.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And there were a lot of thoughtful people that John brought into this. Then we also had an endowment of a little over $11 million. I oversaw our work until I, and this is very controversial, I concluded that it's possible that we needed, while we still had an endowment, to consider closing down EWI as we knew it and create a legacy. I led that and it was very controversial. It was very hard. But ultimately, I prevailed to hire Jonathan Fanton to come in as an expert. And Jonathan made the recommendations that we finally followed, which got us to the College of Charleston as sort of the legacy host of all the work that EWI had done.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=157.0,215.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nWow. Well, let's go back in time a little bit to this initial lunch. Do you remember what year that lunch was?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=215.0,222.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nThat's a good question. I am thinking it would've been around 2000?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=222.0,236.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nOkay, great. So you're brought on as general counsel. What made you want to be involved with the East West Institute?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=236.0,246.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nWell, the purpose, it was very similar to what I was working on of, we were trying to, the Berlin Wall had fallen and the Cold War as we knew it was over, but there was a lot of work to be done to try. And I really liked the approach that John took of trying to get people to talk to each other and get to know each other. So when I heard the history of EWI, how they got the Warsaw Pact Generals to have a meeting with the NATO generals, I just thought that was terrific. And then obviously the caliber of people in the room told me that there was a real commitment of talented people. And so, it was the cause. Then, if you were around John Mroz for any length of time, he was a pied piper because he was just such an interesting man, very visionary, but very warm. He built a family culture in EWI that you could see that was somewhat unique.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=246.0,315.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nIf you'll indulge me, the work you were doing for the American Bar Association in Eastern Europe after the end of the Cold War sounds really fascinating. What was it like to be there during that time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=315.0,326.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nWell, I'm chuckling because, so we made a lot of progress with the Eastern European countries like Romania, Bulgaria, because they had a history from the age of enlightenment or whatever. So using the carrot of joining the EU, we did well there. But it was so strange for the Soviet countries because they've been used to bribery. You used to have to bribe your way to get to law school, bribe your way to deal with a judge. But it was all good because we found reformers. And then we, like in the Balkans, we tried to explain them that wearing a robe in a courtroom was a good thing because it gave an aura of third party judgment. But then, some of the people thought that was a badge of credibility, so they wore their robes around town and we had to say, no, no, this is not a uniform.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=326.0,389.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So there was some interesting times. But it was a good time because everyone was, with the fall of the Cold War, what had happened was democratic capitalism had sort of succeeded, so we were on the democratic side. You can have good business practices, but if you don't have rule of law, it's not going to work. And the Soviet model had failed. So there was a lot of promise, but then the autocrats came back in, Putin. But Eastern Europe was in pretty good shape. In some of the stands, we made good progress, but LA was very interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=389.0,440.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nI bet. Yeah. Did you learn anything in that period that helped you later on with your work with the East West Institute?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=440.0,445.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nWell, I learned a lot from John. You can't show up with a sign that's \"I'm with the United States, and we know everything.\" You really have to be there to listen. And what was fascinating to me was the leadership, the kind of people that John was looking for were sort of thought leaders, intellectuals. It didn't make any difference what country you went into. It could be a quote, third world country, but they're very talented people, and most of them had had Western education and children in Western education, like Armen Sarkissian, who is now the president of Armenia, was on our board. He lived in London and his children went to school in London. So I was very heartened that there was a lot of talented people, and we had a lot to learn from other people. That was the beauty of when he walked in the boardroom— John. There were people from all over the globe. They had the same heart of wanting to do good things for other people and very strong intellectually, but different cultures, different ways of thinking about things and learning about things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=445.0,522.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nWho did you work with most closely when you were working at EWI's General Council?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=522.0,528.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nWell, my job was to clean up after John. John was the personality that got excited. He would travel all over the world. He would find people. He was not a detailed person. And also, he could get people making the wrong assumptions. So sometimes we would have a co-chair of the board that didn't work out. My job was to gracefully make that transition and then we would hire some people in a high level that had different expectations than what they thought of and what John was saying. So, my job was, his strengths were incredible, but there was a lot of area where it was not something he cared to deal with. Mark Maletz did a lot of that. When he left, I sort of inherited all of that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=528.0,590.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so, Mark and I, at the time spent a lot of time together. And then after we lost [Mark], Steven Heintz was always the person I could go to. And then Steven and I did the search for John's successor. Then, during the tough times when we had to make some hard decisions, Bob Campbell really spent the time and energy—and John Hurley. John was very close to John Mroz, John Hurley was. Went to his burial side as I remember. And so those, and of course, Ross Perot, when Ross came in, they spent a lot of time with him. And then before him, Francis Finlay, not nearly as much as Ross, as Ross is much more of a hands-on person. And then, you could always count on Maria Cattaui and Wolfgang Ischinger. Really grounded people that you can go and sort of talk through issues. And then Joel Cowen — Joel's wonderful. Joel's the one that got me into it. Joel's the one that listened to me when I expressed myself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=590.0,673.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nSure. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=673.0,675.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE \n\nMainly John Mroz.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=675.0,678.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nWere there any specific projects that you worked on besides cleaning up after John, any of the substantive projects that EWI did during your time there that you worked with?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=678.0,688.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nNo, I mean they're the kinds of things you just have to do. I had to litigate a lease in New York and made some money off that. Then I had to get a team of lawyers when we moved into the new property. It was very complicated. Real estate, had to get lawyers for that, which I got volunteered out of my firm. And then when we were winding down, we had a lot of EU regulatory issues. And then, we had the situation of Turkey where we were trying to open an office there. We were trying to build relationships there. Turns out that Korkmaz [Sezgin Baran Korkmaz], who was the person we put on our board, became very controversial. And matter of fact, ultimately I think he's been indicted. And so I had to deal with the Department of Justice [explaining] what was our relationship to him. Then, Russia would have these crackdowns on NGOs. So I need to work with our guy over there that's the head of our offices.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=688.0,767.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nVladimir [Ivanov], yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=767.0,769.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nSo I had to handle the fires. And that's where you learn about the cultures. I mean, Russia takes three people to do what we would want one person to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=769.0,777.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah. I have to ask which was harder, dealing with the Kremlin or litigating a lease in New York?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=777.0,785.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nWell, that's a fair, good comparison. Yeah. Both of them had their selfish agenda.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=785.0,796.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nI bet, I bet. You mentioned that you also oversaw the transition. If you can tell me a little bit about the transition to the new CEO after John's death. Can you tell me a little bit about the search, what kind of qualities the search committee was looking for, and just a little bit about that period in the institute's history?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=796.0,818.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nWell, I mean after we lost John. Yeah. Well, Stephen agreed to do the search with me. No, and actually we got Martti [Ahtisaari], the former President of Finland. Martti and Stephen were probably the two people that were the search committee, but I was chairman of the executive committee and Stephen wrote me into everything. So they ran it very professionally. They did not use a head hunter.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=818.0,853.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The lesson learned out of all of that is John was just unique. So, we were looking for people that were worldly, that knew the geopolitical side. And we found that in Cameron. What is so hard is that John could see around corners. So he told, when I showed up, they were just winding down unification of Germany. And they were winding down the Balkans where we had projects. Pretty active on the Balkans right then. Starting the Gaza. And all of a sudden you would see the board shift, and you would find, when I came home, there were a lot of people still related to the Balkans that had been.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=853.0,902.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then all of a sudden we started adding board members relevant to the Gaza. And then the next thing we know, he's saying, we got to go to Asia. Well, no one else had seen that yet. Took Obama a lot longer than it took John. And then he would go find the people over there. And I mean, it was just remarkable. I'm not sure that, surely there's someone else like that, but that had the vision, could find the connectivity to the right people and knew how to raise money. So, our criteria was probably not as much on the raising money, which is probably a mistake we made. But it was on the geopolitical, which Cameron had that for sure. But the networking, John would just, like Ross Perot, he worked on Ross and the next thing you know, Ross is taking John to Africa to hunt.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=902.0,962.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that's John. Then, he would go stay with Catherine Davis for three days. He was always gone. Then, he decides India's important. And next thing we know, we have the former foreign minister. So we probably should have spent a little bit more time on what made EWI unique and the things I'm telling you about did. So we went through the search and we came up with Cameron. And we went through quite a very good process and it was done very, very professionally. Then we moved along. We had had, oh, I see. So Ross was really good about saying John, you need more support and discipline. And he said that nicely. So we brought Jim Creighton on. Jim was a retired colonel. When John died, Jim was sort of the acting person. I worked a lot with Jim.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=962.0,1036.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When Cameron came in, he brought in Bill Parker as his sort of guy. I had to go through some painful questions about what's fair for Jim. He'd done so much and what should his should his role be. And I sort of had to negotiate all that. And so we kept Jim on for a consultant for a year during the search time. And the search was, people had different views. Peter Castenfelt is someone you should talk to. Peter's the mystery man. Next thing you know, he claims he's going to be in North Korea talking to the key guy there. The next thing you know, he is over in Iraq, then he is over. So Peter had his own view of who we should hire. So it was quite intriguing to say the least.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1036.0,1093.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nI bet. I bet. So as you mentioned, you brought Cameron on and Cameron stayed for I think four years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1093.0,1099.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nThat's correct.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1099.0,1100.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah. And once you get into kind of 2019, 2020, I think it's probably when you started seeing that things needed to change. Is that right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1100.0,1111.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE \n\nWell, at John's death, we had an endowment of $10—$11 million, and we had key man insurance of $5 [million]. And I watched the five go to zero. And so we lived off that for a while. Then I got very worried as chairman executive committee about this. Now we're down to the endowment. And so we had to shift to more emphasis on fundraising. I'm sort of the one that said that's what we got to do. If we didn't have the fundraising challenge, we would've been fine, except to be relevant, what John was always so good at, he was two steps ahead. I mean, he saw cyber before anyone else saw cyber, and then he saw Gaza. Someone else could probably tell you the story better because it had just sort of happened, but we had the key PLO people and the key Israel people talking, and we had investors that were going to build factories in Gaza. And so we had a great plan. Then the top people said, \"Politically, I can't sell it.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1111.0,1196.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But that ability to find, not only here's the issue, but here are the people is just incredible. And so we had key Jewish people in from the states that were going to put up the money, and Marshall Bennett was one of them. And then he kept intact Don Campbell and them who was all about Russia. And I'm not sure anyone else could have done that. But that was the way it was. So then after Cameron left, it really got hard. The search process was not robust the second time around. And I made the decision that Bill Parker was probably the best person to try and raise the money. He had done a good job. We'd had a annual meeting. The Armenians came and wrote some big checks.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1196.0,1273.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But then all of a sudden I started seeing the endowment going down. And then I made the controversial move with the executive committee that we needed to study options, which Bill didn't agree with, Karen didn't agree with, and some others didn't agree with. So it was a hard time. Bill published some things to the board about me that was tough, saying I was an autocrat, wasn't paying attention to other people, wasn't listening. But I had called Stephen Heintz and I said, I don't know what our options are, but we need to know who can I go to? And he said, Jonathan Fanton.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1273.0,1317.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I called Jonathan and decided he was perfectly situated to evaluate us, and if he could see a plan going forward, but we stayed even, yeah, I'd have been fine. But if he didn't think we could go forward and maintain it, I didn't want to see that endowment book of zero, because that's where it was headed. So we went through a huge struggle. And Bob Campbell and John Hurley really were hopeful to me because other people, Ross included, they don't like controversy, so they'd rather not have to hear about it. And then there were the emotional people like Karen, and oh my God. How could you not continue EWI? But, now everyone's happy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1317.0,1369.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1369.0,1369.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nI got a lot of scar tissue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1369.0,1374.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nI bet.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1374.0,1374.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nThat's what you got. And I'm happy the way it's all worked out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1374.0,1376.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYeah, it sounds challenging, but I think you're right that everybody's very happy with the way that it worked out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1376.0,1384.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nThe minutes are—whether you've seen minutes?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1384.0,1391.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nSorry?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1391.0,1391.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nI don't know whether you've seen minutes of our EWI board meetings or our executive committee meetings?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1391.0,1397.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nA few. Not from the time that you're referencing, but I've heard a lot of people talk about it. So I know that it was contentious and difficult at times.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1397.0,1412.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nIt was. So Mary, I'm talking about Mary, the lawyer that's on the executive committee.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1412.0,1417.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nYes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1417.0,1418.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nShe was very, very, very helpful. And so we agreed to bring on Jonathan Fanton. We agreed to put Karen on the executive committee, but then Mary called Bill and insisted that he retract what he had said to the board, and he resigned. But Mary's all Irish. And we had to clean that up, because I was a little frustrated that I didn't want the board to not hear both sides of the story.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1418.0,1460.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nOf course. And so as you said, Jonathan Fanton came on and did kind of an overview. What were the things that Jonathan Fanton recommended?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1460.0,1470.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nHe recommended that we could not, he didn't see where we could find the next John Mroz that could do what had been done. But we had some wonderful programs. And so we had the Military to Military program, and he saw where that could be housed and continue on. And then we had the People to People program in China, which he saw we could give that to the Bush Foundation where David Firestein, who used to be with EWI, was. And this is where Karen was very helpful. Hilton Smith had been an active member for years. We'd had a board meeting in Charleston and discussions with Hilton. And what Jonathan said is, I mean, John Mroz had gone to Notre Dame and I think his papers are there. He said, I don't recommend we go to Harvard or Notre Dame because we wouldn't be as meaningful to them as we would some other place.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1470.0,1542.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that's when Karen said, well, Charleston is a place that might appreciate what we've got. And so she called Hilton. So that was the main, we wanted to try and take, could you capture the idea of track two diplomacy, which is really what was unique about it, and take that legacy and put it somewhere around with some intellectual nicks there, with our history, with our legacy. So College of Charleston was the biggie. And then we knew David knew people to people, and we knew that the admiral knew military to military. So that was the big thing. Well, and excuse me. And then the last thing was that trying to find some way to keep the alumni together, because we had sort of a very loving family culture, and we all like each other a lot. So we were hoping that we could have a fellows of the EWI and Charleston. And that was sort of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1542.0,1627.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nWonderful. Well, I would love to hear some of your quintessential EWI stories. You've talked about a little bit about them. You mentioned to me in an email, a board trip to Norway? Is that right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1627.0,1638.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1638.0,1639.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nCan you tell me that story?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1639.0,1644.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nClassic John Mroz. This is during when all of a sudden the Cold War is heating up again, which was interesting because we were very much involved with that. And the West had just decommissioned anything dealing with how do you deal with Russia on a Cold War? So you had to start all over again. We were trying to back channel that. So John thought it would be helpful for us to go to Norway, which is right there next door. We met in Oslo. And see, people like Dan Rose, when Dan was a benefactor, he was at the Oslo meeting, and Bim Kendall was at the Oslo meeting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1644.0,1690.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was wonderful. But then he set up the side trip where almost all of us got on a plane. And we flew up to Kirkenes, which is way up at the very top. And the idea there was that we were going to go from Kirkenes to Murmansk, which was the only port that was available for the Lend Lease program for when we were sent into Stalin support. And what John was trying to get us to see was how was Norway handling relationships with Russia? But also there was just a historic that was eliminated. So we get on a bus and what by the crow flies in the States could have been a two hour drive was like a seven hour drive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1690.0,1743.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And on my bus was Marshall Bennett who was in his 80s, Bim, who was going up there, and some others. So the first thing is we come up to where they bring down the border crossing, and our bus driver breaks through and breaks it down on purpose. He breaks that. So we have to sit there for an hour while three Soviet soldiers fill out papers. And he was giving us a flavor of how inefficient Russia is. And then the minute we cross over, you're in a third world. It was just unbelievable. Roads were terrible, bumpity bump bump. And so we go to, [Norilsk] Nickel is the name of this, well there's a plant, and I think within 30 miles of the plant, there's not one piece of vegetation because of all of the pollution. And something like, I don't know, 50,000 people live in this little town with huge belching smoke. And the average life expectancy is like 52.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1743.0,1811.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nWow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1811.0,1811.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nSo you start getting a feeling for how back, we'd been to Moscow, I've been to Moscow in the '90s when it was dreary and dark. Nothing in the windows. But you go to Moscow after that, once the Cold War ended, and you think you're in New York or Paris. Mainly when you're out where we were, you just see how backward Russia still is underneath there. And then we stopped at the park where there was a bombed out German tank that was there. And you saw these school kids, and they were taking these Russian school kids and saying, \"Mother Russia saved you from the Nazis.\" So that's how you start seeing the psychology of what Putin does, that the West is the enemy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1811.0,1865.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So that was just a big \"Aha!\" And then we finally get to Murmansk, which is a sort of forlorn, tired port city. And we had these Russians meet us and we propped up Marshall Bennett who had been in the Merchant Marines, our military presence. And they had people, Russian soldiers, retired wearing their uniforms. We had a little ceremony of friends. And I had been to... Gorbachev had hosted the American Bar in 1990, I think it was. And he wanted to talk about democratic capitalism. And there'd been this embracing between Russians and Americans. And that was still even there when we were in Murmansk. And then we had to bounce all the way back. But then there's Bim, there's Marshall, but it was an eye-opener for me of just understanding Russia a little bit better. And that's what John would do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1865.0,1933.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Another time we went to Moscow after that, had our board meeting and went over and met with the hierarchy of the [Russian Orthodox] Church. The point — he wanted to educate us that Putin was using the church as sort of a political weapon for him. And then we got on a train and went to St. Petersburg and attended this great charitable ball that the Germans were really putting on, but it was Russians were there. You would go on this trip and they were very educational. They would give you a perspective of, okay, there's the Orthodox Church, and it's sort of tied in. The Germans are very close, very dependent on Russians for a lot of economic interchange. So that was a kind of thing. And then when we were in Beijing, C.H. Tung [Tung Chee-hwa] was one of our great funders, and he and John spoke, oh my gosh, it was just incredible. C.H. giving the perspective of what China was and is, and why he was funding work like ours, because the importance of trying to make it work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=1933.0,2017.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then John on seeing that, coming on that too. So we would get these wonderful, and whenever we had a board meeting, they would start with John sort of touring around the world. Everyone wanted to be there because it was just a perspective builder. We had a program in Afghanistan where we were working with the Russians and the Iranians on drugs because both of those, because the poppy seeds were in Afghanistan, and then the drug lords were taking it up through Russia. And that's the only program we still had going with Russia at that time. I was just going to tell you about Catherine Davis. I mean, someone 100 years old coming to a board meeting in Beijing?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=2017.0,2075.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nAmazing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=2075.0,2076.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nAnd when she was on her deathbed, she called John. She said, John, \"Have I done enough for other people?\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=2076.0,2087.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nWow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=2087.0,2087.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nSo that's the magic that John had, because he was all pure about what's the right thing. John was no longer living, but when we went to Jordan, we met with the King [Abdullah] and Ross had a good relationship there. And then with 2020, do you know about 2020?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=2087.0,2116.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nGeorge Russell 2020?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=2116.0,2119.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nYeah. Well, that's a group. Once or twice a year, they go to a region. And we've been the ones that have set up the agenda.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=2119.0,2129.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nRight.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=2129.0,2131.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nAnd so Ross Perot led the delegation to the northern part of Iraq. This is back during ISIS. And then Ross ended up investing over there. And so, there was just always a lot of action going on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=2131.0,2155.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nSounds like it, yeah. Zooming out to big picture now, I wonder, do you have a sense of what you think EWI's biggest contribution was?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=2155.0,2163.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nYeah, yeah. Because among influencers and people that can make a difference, EWI sort of permeated that group. I mean, the former head of national security for Obama was a retired military general, was on our board and did a lot of advising. So I think EWI had an impact on broadening people's perspective of track two diplomacy, because the military were moving ahead on soft power. They were saying, look, we may have the best technology and the best soldiers if you want us to take a village, but what good does that do if when I leave the village, ISIS or the Taliban come right back in? You need to work with people in a region, in a country, and find mutual ways to move towards peace. So I think, and this is somewhere where Charleston continued this work, emphasizing track two diplomacy is huge. I mean, you just take China today. You have the Taiwan issue, which is really hard. And by the way, that's another side trip we took when we were in Beijing. We went down to the Straits where you could almost see Taiwan, just for us to understand how close that was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=2163.0,2267.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think that, and then Wolfgang Ischinger now heads up to Munich security conference. And Wolfgang has got all that in his head. I mean, he had a lot on his own, but I think EWI, and that's why, from a legacy, John couldn't live forever. So we had to institutionalize that somehow. So I think that where we ended up with Charleston is a good way to institutionalize that. If we could get five students that understand that where there's a will, there's a way. If you really sit down, well, John would do is he'd go in where people he didn't know and they were sort of hogtied, and then he'd open up his wallet and he'd say, these are pictures of my grandchildren. And he said that. And I just love to share that with you. And that's my concern. What is the world going to look like for these children, these grandchildren?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=2267.0,2326.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nAbsolutely. Well, I think that's actually a really great place to wrap up, unless you have anything else you'd like to add in that I haven't asked you about?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=2326.0,2336.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nWell, I don't think so. I'll send you an email.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=2336.0,2344.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EMILY WHALEN\n\nOkay. Sounds good. Thank you so much. I'll pause our recording and then we'll stay on just to go over some logistics.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=2344.0,2351.0"},{"id":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808/transcript/43558/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"WILLIAM IDE\n\nOkay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://lcdl.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1894/collection_resources/87116/file/175808#t=2351.0,2352.32"}]}]}]}